exmo.com comes to WashPo

[LA Ute]

This group seems to have little sense of how run of the mill her story is.

My Evangelical Presbyterian buddy (yes, there are people in that faith category, lots of them -- I was surprised to learn this) says it is run of the mill, that every faith, including his, has its disaffected current and former adherents. I am not sure the cultural imprint is nearly as indelible or potentially vexing for his crowd as it is for our Mormon tribe (or, e.g., many Jewish, Pentecostal or Catholic groups) but it is there.

[SuperGabers]

And BTW, telling people that they don't "get Jesus" is probably not going to get you very far with this crowd.

I am already on the outs as an "apostate" Lebowski. It doesn't really matter what I say now.

[TripletDaddy]

No charge. You're welcome.

lol. YOhio doesn't know basic LDS doctrine.

[LA Ute]

lol. YOhio doesn't know basic LDS doctrine.

I'm sure he was just multi-tasking and made a careless error. He needs to know we forgive him for that and still love him.

I saw that too...but a correction from an apostate would not be appropriate, especially from an apostate who so frequently misspells/types as this one.

Watch and see-- YO will not thank me. He's small that way.

[UtahDan]

To the contrary, I think we have a very good sense of it. It seems like we are presented with some version or another of it quite often here. Maybe the question of why so many of us view that differently than you is somethign you should ponder?

It is something I have pondered and continue to ponder a lot. There is an epidemic of people's families falling to pieces over issues like this. The hurt that exists out there within families is unbelievable in its volume and intensity. I hope I do understand where you and others are coming from, having come from that very same spot at one point I hope I also have empathy for it. I see it as well within the range of normal and I don't think anyone has to be mean, unintelligent or agenda driven to be there. Very much the opposite. I think who each of us are is a unique combination of our experiences, environment and personalities.

Believe me creek, I spend far more time encouraging un-believers to feel empathy for their family members than I do the reverse. This is not a zero sum game at all. Everyone needs to try to be more empathetic. Whether it is working or not, it is something I am trying to remind myself of all the time.

[jay santos]

I started to do a multi-quote analysis on this for UtahDan, but nearly every paragraph, sometimes multiple sentences per paragraph, is filled with exaggeration or outright lie.

[YOhio]

Believe me creek, I spend far more time encouraging un-believers to feel empathy for their family members than I do the reverse. This is not a zero sum game at all. Everyone needs to try to be more empathetic. Whether it is working or not, it is something I am trying to remind myself of all the time.

This is an interesting post. Where do you meet all these shunned ex-Mormons? Do you moonlight as an ex-Mo grief counselor or something?

[Tone Loc]

I worded what I said very carefully. Read it again. The question is, when someone seems to see reality in a way that seems crazy, it is a clue that you haven't fully understood where they are coming from. That doesn't mean you are compelled to agree with them in the end, of course. But you ought to be able to say "I guess if I were them I can see how I might feel that way too."

I understand that there are multiple ways that people can fall away from the church. In fact, I think some have very compelling reasons and their final judgment will probably take that into consideration.

So in fairness I dont think its crazy, but I do think its sad. And I hope that she will one day see the error of her ways and come back to the fold.

[YOhio]

No charge. You're welcome.

lol. YOhio doesn't know basic LDS doctrine.

I have no idea what you guys are talking about.

[Jeff Lebowski]

This group seems to have little sense of how run of the mill her story is.

I worded what I said very carefully. Read it again. The question is, when someone seems to see reality in a way that seems crazy, it is a clue that you haven't fully understood where they are coming from. That doesn't mean you are compelled to agree with them in the end, of course. But you ought to be able to say "I guess if I were them I can see how I might feel that way too."

Where have I or anyone else claimed her story is unique or rare? I have encountered countless people like her in my life.

Frankly, I am surprised that you are so defensive about this essay.

[TripletDaddy]

This is an interesting post. Where do you meet all these shunned ex-Mormons? Do you moonlight as an ex-Mo grief counselor or something?

U of U alumni functions.

[DU Ute]

Believe me creek, I spend far more time encouraging un-believers to feel empathy for their family members than I do the reverse. This is not a zero sum game at all. Everyone needs to try to be more empathetic. Whether it is working or not, it is something I am trying to remind myself of all the time.

Probably because the family members are already showing that empathy and thus don't need the encouragement.

[TripletDaddy]

I have no idea what you guys are talking about.

You messed up the definition of physical and spiritual death.

The Rambam has already taught us that spiritual death can be blamed on the bad examples of others, such as Corianton causing the spiritual death of the Zoramites. If it were not for Corianton, the Zoramites would not have experienced spiritual death.

[LA Ute]

I have no idea what you guys are talking about.

We are not surprised.

[UtahDan]

I agree that there are a lot of religious fanatics out there.

It would be interesting to know if people who leave Mormonism to become Evangelical Christians are more or less persecuted by their LDS families than Evangelical Christians who convert to Mormonism are persecuted by their Evangelical Christian families.

I would bet it's pretty similar. Hopefully most families would still love the child gone astray. But I don't think Mormons on average are quicker to disown their kids over religion than people of other faiths (but equal religiosity).

That is key. Another key is the relative youth of the church and the time it has had to grapple with its heretics and apostates, a factor that makes it hard to compare to other religious movements. But no, I suspect that if you adjust the variables most human beings behave within a similar range given the same set of circumstances. But there are lots of behaviors that human beings default to or engage in at similar levels that are nevertheless not what anyone should be striving for.

It would be be a defense to anyone to say that others shut their children out of their homes for five years at a similar rate. I'm confident no one in this group would do that to their child. But that sort of thing is not uncommon. It ought to be.