How would you discipline?

[Viking]

I think it's a wholly inappropriate practice for anyone to "confess" their sins to an ecclesiastical leader. If Christ and his atonement are real, it's between God and the sinner. Period.

[Tick's wife]

Thanks for saying a nice word in my behalf Wuap. TW's post made me chuckle (after I rolled my eyes) I hope that was the point of the comment. Since she doesn't know me and I don't know her, I would rather always assume the best about someone until proven otherwise.

of course it's suppose to make you laugh. I was told, by viewers, to not take things seriously so I'm hoping other don't on my comments....but....and there is always a big but....bishop or no bishop, you are a man and men are easily aroused by such topics. It's just a fact of life, not an insult.

[wuapinmon]

of course it's suppose to make you laugh. I was told, by viewers, to not take things seriously so I'm hoping other don't on my comments....but....and there is always a big but....bishop or no bishop, you are a man and men are easily aroused by such topics. It's just a fact of life, not an insult.

Then if it's a fact of life, just let it go. You wield it with such rancor and disrespect for the burden of the calling. It shows a crass attitude towards a calling that is really all about helping other people, not fodder for a husband and wife's sex games.


The first instance:

I think they get Hard ons when they hear confessions of intimate sins.

Also, I think they are Bishops and SP because they have far more to learn than we do...

[Tick's wife]

Then if it's a fact of life, just let it go. You wield it with such rancor and disrespect for the burden of the calling. It shows a crass attitude towards a calling that is really all about helping other people, not fodder for a husband and wife's sex games.


The first instance:

the y are U so bothered by it....it's a forum, it's okay for you to express your opinion but i can't? Double standard

[Indy Coug]

the y are U so bothered by it....it's a forum, it's okay for you to express your opinion but i can't? Double standard

Sorry, but hearing confessions aren't like reading DH Lawrence or Penthouse Forum. They are neither detailed nor titillating. If that's your honest opinion, then I'm sorry that you are so completely misinformed and/or jaded.

[dabrockster]

Exactly. I appreciate AV, but one of the things he said bothered me:


I had a bishop basically tell me the same thing when I was a kid. The problem was that I actually had let it go further, but had omitted it from the confession. I went around for a long time buried in guilt, convinced that I was beyond redemption. I would have been far better off if I had simply resolved the issue on my own and never talked to the bishop in the first place. I'm sure most bishops are well intentioned, but I think a lot of the time they do more harm than good.

I don't want to sound rude but I think that was your own doing...

It sounds like you choose to torture yourself by not truly repenting of what you did?

Half-truth copnfessions will never allow you to remove the guilt you have.

The Bishop did not have any fault in what happened to you.

[Indy Coug]

I don't want to sound rude but I think that was your own doing...

It sounds like you choose to torture yourself by not truly repenting of what you did?

Half-truth copnfessions will never allow you to remove the guilt you have.

The Bishop did not have any fault in what happened to you.

Ease up there a bit. As a youth, are we supposed to fully understand how to repent, especially when we are getting the bishop involved?

[dabrockster]

Ease up there a bit. As a youth, are we supposed to fully understand how to repent, especially when we are getting the bishop involved?

As a child are we not taught to repent? Are we not taught to confess our sins? I have a hard time thinking a half confession is not something we do not understand.

I am sorry it came across harsh but I think laying the blame on the Bishop for not fully confessing is not fair to him (The Bishop) who was trying to help and comfort him.

Yes that verbage has been used before, and I can say it has prompted me to fully disclose my sin. And by so doing it brought true forgiveness to me and I felt the true power of forgiveness and what it meant. It brought a stronger bond between my Bishop and me, because of that experience (Just to give different side to a similar story..).

Bishops are not perfect, and they have many faults, but they can still be guided by the spirit and saying that "phrase" may have been the Lord's way to try and prompt him to fully disclose his sin.


There are many Bishops who are imperfect. My curernt one is a Ute.. But he is a good man and I try to not hold that against him..

Do I agree with him all the time? No, but I do not think every Bishop's sole intention is to cause you or anyone else more pain.

[SoonerCoug]

I was mission secretary or AP for more than 50% of my mission, which was awesome because I got to hear all the good stories, and this thread just reminded me of one.

Sometimes it's good to give all the gory details and make the bishop wish he hadn't asked. In my Russian mission, many of the branch presidents were missionaries. At one point they held a big disciplinary council for several members of the Church who had a crazy orgy that included both heterosexual and homosexual behavior. Of course, the missionary branch presidents then divulged the entire proceedings to all the other missionaries. When the orgy participants were asked questions about what went on, they did not hold back one bit and gave every gory sexual detail. Apparently several Russian members of the Church would describe what they did and then editorialize about what an awesome time they had. Some of the things that went on (which I'll spare you) made the council wish they hadn't asked. Everyone got excommunicated of course.

[wuapinmon]

There are many Bishops who are imperfect. My curernt one is a Ute.. But he is a good man and I try to not hold that against him..

:rant:

We need a "Yawn" emoticon.

[Non Sequitur]

Half-truth copnfessions will never allow you to remove the guilt you have.

The Bishop did not have any fault in what happened to you.

That is such bullshit. Confessions don't remove guilt. And sin isn't what causes guilt. Guilt is manufactured by those around you imposing their expectations on you. You have 15 year-old kids confessing and feeling guilty for french-kissing their girlfriends. The only reason they feel guilty is because they have so many people telling them how sinful that is and how much it displeases God. When I was a kid I never once felt guilty while I was in the back seat of a car in a compromising position -- that always felt great. The guilt is a result of feeling like you have disappointed someone else. Sin doesn't create guilt, other people's expectations do. And to think that confession to a bishop somehow magically erases that guilt is ridiculous. The way to ease the guilt is to decide for yourself how you want to conduct your life and stop feeling obliged to conform to other people's arbitrary sense of morality.

[JohnnyLingo]

Sin doesn't create guilt, other people's expectations do.

An interesting perspective.

So one's conscience is entirely manufactured by societal pressures, then?

[Indy Coug]

Guilt is manufactured by those around you imposing their expectations on you. ... Sin doesn't create guilt, other people's expectations do.

Sorry, but I don't buy that claim for a second. I think a person's innate sense of humanity will cause them to feel guilty for misdeeds. If they don't, they tend to turn out to be sociopaths.

[Non Sequitur]

An interesting perspective.

So one's conscience is entirely manufactured by societal pressures, then?

Our ideas of right and wrong are greatly influenced by what we are taught. If a religious person has sex before marriage, they will feel guilty because they have been taught it is wrong. Someone who has never been taught it is wrong, will not feel a tinge of guilt. The same goes for drinking tea and coffee.

[Non Sequitur]

Sorry, but I don't buy that claim for a second. I think a person's innate sense of humanity will cause them to feel guilty for misdeeds. If they don't, they tend to turn out to be sociopaths.

So you don't buy off on the concept of the "natural man"?