Dishonest Insurance Claims

[wally]

Ummm - "people" report wrong doing to the Stake President all the time. What do you think PPI's are for? You think the Bishop meets with the Stake President once a month to chat? And all the EQPs and HPGLs? And the HC members who also should be having PPIs with the EQPs and HPGLs. They're all reporting back to the SP things that are going on in the stake's wards/groups/quorums. And yes, that would most definitely include a wave of insurance fraud that they thought/knew was occurring.

And the SP is 100% correct for speaking out about it, and warning people that over-reporting losses is fraud, and would make you unworthy for a TR.

I'm a whole-hearted believer in teaching correct principles and letting people govern themselves, but if a SP gets a hint that there is bunch of sinning going on and does nothing to try to stop it - especially with Melch. Priesthood holders - he's going to have some 'splainin' to do...

Good point.

This is why I asked the question. To gain a different perspective, and I think that my opinion is evolving.

Now onto a different question:

When a business negotiates settlements, in my understanding, it begins negotiation with the maximum reasonable sum. If a business gets a higher than expected settlement, was it a good negotiation or dishonest one?

[doctorcoug]

Like I say, watch your back Surfah. I have my eye on you.

EDIT: By the way, the idea that the whole priesthood structure is one big gossip network that culminates with the SP reading a dossier of what wrong doing is going on in his stake revolts me at a visceral level. I''m pretty sure that is not what is going on.

Well, you better go get some zofran.

[statman]

EDIT: By the way, the idea that the whole priesthood structure is one big gossip network that culminates with the SP reading a dossier of what wrong doing is going on in his stake revolts me at a visceral level. I''m pretty sure that is not what is going on.

It's exactly the process that happens - you just don't sum it up very well.
first of all, who said anything about a "gossip network" - I do like how you inserted it into the quote from me. Reporting on the situation of people for whom you have stewardship isn't gossip. It's returning and reporting the needs and challenges facing wards, quorums and individuals. It's why we do home and visiting teaching.

And yes, if you knew that someone whom you were responsible to home teach was ripping off an insurance company, you should probably share that with your EQP/HPGL in your next PPI. That individual is putting their church membership in jeopardy by their actions...

[creekster]

Good point.

This is why I asked the question. To gain a different perspective, and I think that my opinion is evolving.

Now onto a different question:

When a business negotiates settlements, in my understanding, it begins negotiation with the maximum reasonable sum. If a business gets a higher than expected settlement, was it a good negotiation or dishonest one?

Given that your different quesiton has no realtionship, even as a hypothetical, to the issues in this thread, perhaps you shoudl start a new thread for it?

[statman]

When a business negotiates settlements, in my understanding, it begins negotiation with the maximum reasonable sum. If a business gets a higher than expected settlement, was it a good negotiation or dishonest one?

This isn't a case of negotiating anything. It's an issue of lying about damages after an insurance company has already agreed to pay all actual damages.

[CardiacCoug]

We had about $10K of damage from Hurricane Ike when we lived in Houston. The roof was stripped down to the plywood and all our fences were destroyed, for example.

A few days after we got back into town after the hurricane I found a persistent wet spot in our yard and I dug around a little bit and found we had a cracked pipe leading in from the street to the side of our house. As I thought about it, I was pretty sure that as I was moving some of our big playground stuff into the garage before the hurricane, I had tossed some of it over a fence right above where the pipe was broken and that is what cracked the pipe.

Anyway, I was perhaps not totally honest and I went ahead and claimed the pipe was hurricane damage, even though I'm pretty sure it was technically from my pre-hurricane preparations. I thought the insurance company would tell me to take a hike -- how can a hurricane crack an underground pipe? But they went ahead and paid for it.

I learned a lot about how insurance works from my neighbors and my own experience. Apparently if you have a little tiny bit of water damage in a room, the insurance company will pay to refinish and repaint the entire room -- there are a lot of games people play and a lot of deceit that goes on, I think.

[statman]

We had about $10K of damage from Hurricane Ike when we lived in Houston. The roof was stripped down to the plywood and all our fences were destroyed, for example.

A few days after we got back into town after the hurricane I found a persistent wet spot in our yard and I dug around a little bit and found we had a cracked pipe leading in from the street to the side of our house. As I thought about it, I was pretty sure that as I was moving some of our big playground stuff into the garage before the hurricane, I had tossed some of it over a fence right above where the pipe was broken and that is what cracked the pipe.

Anyway, I was perhaps not totally honest and I went ahead and claimed the pipe was hurricane damage, even though I'm pretty sure it was technically from my pre-hurricane preparations. I thought the insurance company would tell me to take a hike -- how can a hurricane crack an underground pipe? But they went ahead and paid for it.

I learned a lot about how insurance works from my neighbors and my own experience. Apparently if you have a little tiny bit of water damage in a room, the insurance company will pay to refinish and repaint the entire room -- there are a lot of games people play and a lot of deceit that goes on, I think.

I'm sure you're right.

I noted above that I used to sell carpet. On more than one occasion, I went into homes to estimate carpet replacement costs where I was essentially positive that the people had caused water damage themselves. One time I walked up to a home and I saw a garden hose - hooked up to a spigot, not pumping water out - running down into the basement. They delayed a bit before they let me down in the basement - obviously to pull the hose out.

On another occasion, basically the same thing - but they were at least smart enough to pull the hose out before I got there. I could see what had happened though, because the window was open, and there was a wet stain/streak going up the wall toward the window - just like there would be if you'd recently pulled a hose up from outside.

I hated doing replacement estimates for insurance companies becuase we'd bid to get them, and then have a hard time finding installers who were willing to actually do the install in a water damaged room. They had enough work that they would just turn us down. Then at the last minute, we'd have to pay someone way more than normal price, and the profit on the deal would disappear. I don't think I ever got a commission on an insurance replacement bid.

[Katy Lied]

In Utah, the state disaster plans fall along Stake Boundaries, and disaster organization plans fall under the auspices of stake presidents. When the state set up its plan, it saw no need to duplicate an excellent org already in place, especially since the church plan accounts for everyone in the area, not just LDS.

The SP was acting within his authority according to the State plan, which overlays the Stake plan.

[Moliere]

When a business negotiates settlements, in my understanding, it begins negotiation with the maximum reasonable sum. If a business gets a higher than expected settlement, was it a good negotiation or dishonest one?

There's a difference between negotiating a settlement and defrauding someone, although sometimes that difference isn't always very large. But the difference still exists and tends to be quite distinct.

Getting a higher than expected settlement when information has been shared in good faith is just plain good negotiating.

[Moliere]

In Utah, the state disaster plans fall along Stake Boundaries, and disaster organization plans fall under the auspices of stake presidents. When the state set up its plan, it saw no need to duplicate an excellent org already in place, especially since the church plan accounts for everyone in the area, not just LDS.

The SP was acting within his authority according to the State plan, which overlays the Stake plan.

This actually scares me more than the PH gossip ring pyramid.

[Jeff Lebowski]

When I saw footage of the National Guard soldiers working with long lines of people turning in evidence of damage for reimbursement I thought "Uh-oh, this is a recipe for fraud." I don't have a problem at all with the SP encouraging people to be honest, but I think he could have been much more diplomatic about it. I hate the threat about temple recommends. I find it frustrating that we use temple recommends as a brute-force club to get proper behavior sometimes.

[Green Monstah]

When I saw footage of the National Guard soldiers working with long lines of people turning in evidence of damage for reimbursement I thought "Uh-oh, this is a recipe for fraud." I don't have a problem at all with the SP encouraging people to be honest, but I think he could have been much more diplomatic about it. I hate the threat about temple recommends. I find it frustrating that we use temple recommends as a brute-force club to get proper behavior sometimes.

That particular TR questions sucks anyway. Not saying it isn't important to be honest, but I always feel like answering "Yes, 99% of the time," but I always wuss out.

I'm glad they're every other year these days.

[mUUser]

Fascinating that there's enough LDS concentration in such a small area that could justify a special letter to its members from the SP.

Even though I grew up there, Utah continues to strike me as a really odd place.

[UtahDan]

And yes, if you knew that someone whom you were responsible to home teach was ripping off an insurance company, you should probably share that with your EQP/HPGL in your next PPI. That individual is putting their church membership in jeopardy by their actions...

I would never in a million years do that. None of my business.

[LA Ute]

I would never in a million years do that. None of my business.

Your response has been duly noted and will be submitted in my next report to The Committee. Man, it's like shooting fish in a barrel around here.