I learned in church today

[Moliere]

BTW, Moliere, not to be contentious, but don't you think "everyone should go on a mission or else" overstates the current church position just a tad?

Maybe a tad, but you should look through the AP manual sometime and see if I'm really overstating it. There's one diagram in there that places a mission between getting the priesthood and exaltation.

[All-American]

Maybe a tad, but you should look through the AP manual sometime and see if I'm really overstating it. There's one diagram in there that places a mission between getting the priesthood and exaltation.

Is the diagram a timeline? If so, then that's probably about right.

[Moliere]

Just ribbing Moliere over what "or else" means.

I should have read the thread before making my previous post

I think there is a good balance in there somewhere and most local leaders can find it. We've got 8 priests and all tell me they want to serve a mission, but I'd wager that 2-3 really want to serve. The numbers were less than that 1 year ago so I'm making some progress I guess.

[LA Ute]

Maybe a tad, but you should look through the AP manual sometime and see if I'm really overstating it. There's one diagram in there that places a mission between getting the priesthood and exaltation.

I'll look. I hope they didn't leave making Eagle Scout off the diagram.

[myboynoah]

I'll look. I hope they didn't leave making Eagle Scout off the diagram.

Indeed. Also, I hope they didn't leave off graduation from (not "attendance at") a LDS Church-sponsored college or university.

[Pheidippides]

I should have read the thread before making my previous post

I think there is a good balance in there somewhere and most local leaders can find it. We've got 8 priests and all tell me they want to serve a mission, but I'd wager that 2-3 really want to serve. The numbers were less than that 1 year ago so I'm making some progress I guess.

We've created a culture where it's very, very difficult to say you don't want to serve. So then you get kids who get to 19 and go anyway and have a horrible experience (some will have a good one too, to be fair). Or you have kids who have decided not to go but say they will until it's about time, and then the speculation over what major sin is at fault starts. Or you have kids that see it as something they have to do in order to save face, lie about the fact they've screwed half the slutty girls in HS, and then go and are active detriments to the work (this describes several people in my high school).

[LA Ute]

Indeed. Also, I hope they didn't leave off graduation from (not "attendance at") a LDS Church-sponsored college or university.

[TripletDaddy]

Ha. That is a great emoticon

[Brian]

Gas at church is not reserved for deacons class.
Wife came home from RS activity complaining that somebody near her was letting them fly. It got so bad she had to change seats.

[Mormon Red Death]

The RS certainly doesn't have a monopoly on beating up its members as not being worthy. The men have gotten that treatment for as long as I can remember.


After church yesterday my teen daughter says "Guess what our lesson was about today? It shouldn't be too hard, there are only three topics to choose from."

I guessed "the Temple"?

She said "no, families"

But I was in the right ball park. She reports that most YM lessons revolve around the temple, eternal families, and the law of chastity.

That is alright. The young men's lesson are one of three.

1. Do your priesthood duty
2. Word of Wisdom
3. Law of chastity.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Had a very beautiful testimony meeting, including this:

"I have been on safari in Africa, skiing in the Swiss Alps, fishing for pirhanna in the Amazon, and took a submarine to periscope depth under the Arctic ice, but none of those things compared to the joy I felt when I first held my newborn son."

[Tim]

"In my experience, just from what I've seen, the people who aren't interested in staying in the church, or who have doubts about it, generally it's because they have some kind of sin that they're hiding. They're ashamed of it and that's what keeps them away, or makes them want to leave. If they would just take care of their issues, they wouldn't be ashamed, and they'd want to stay. Sure, there are some exceptions, but generally that's what I've seen."

My FIL told me that on Saturday. He's a bishop.

[smokymountainrain]

"In my experience, just from what I've seen, the people who aren't interested in staying in the church, or who have doubts about it, generally it's because they have some kind of sin that they're hiding. They're ashamed of it and that's what keeps them away, or makes them want to leave. If they would just take care of their issues, they wouldn't be ashamed, and they'd want to stay. Sure, there are some exceptions, but generally that's what I've seen."

My FIL told me that on Saturday. He's a bishop.

You may disagree, and that doesn't seem to make much sense based on my experience, but isn't he just being honest based on his experience? Is he wrong just because you and I might disagree?

[Tim]

You may disagree, and that doesn't seem to make much sense based on my experience, but isn't he just being honest based on his experience? Is he wrong just because you and I might disagree?

Yes, he's wrong. His experience is biased by the fact that he expects that if someone isn't involved or wants to leave, it must be because of sin. Talking to my wife, there's no doubt that he felt that way LONG before he became a bishop. I say he's wrong because one's experience in observing people has no bearing on the reality of why each person leaves.

[Non Sequitur]

You may disagree, and that doesn't seem to make much sense based on my experience, but isn't he just being honest based on his experience? Is he wrong just because you and I might disagree?

If he's basing it only on his experience, then he's being dishonest. A big part of the bishop's job is to listen to the sins of his flock, so of course the people he hears from are people who have strayed, but most people who leave the Church don't go see the bishop first, they just stop going. Also, a lot of people stop following the "rules" after they decide to leave. That doesn't mean that's the reason they left in the first place. If not dishonest, then the FIL's assertion is pretty ignorant.