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  • #481
    Originally posted by LA Ute View Post
    BTW, Moliere, not to be contentious, but don't you think "everyone should go on a mission or else" overstates the current church position just a tad?
    Maybe a tad, but you should look through the AP manual sometime and see if I'm really overstating it. There's one diagram in there that places a mission between getting the priesthood and exaltation.
    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

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    • #482
      Originally posted by Moliere View Post
      Maybe a tad, but you should look through the AP manual sometime and see if I'm really overstating it. There's one diagram in there that places a mission between getting the priesthood and exaltation.
      Is the diagram a timeline? If so, then that's probably about right.
      τὸν ἥλιον ἀνατέλλοντα πλείονες ἢ δυόμενον προσκυνοῦσιν

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      • #483
        Originally posted by LA Ute View Post
        Just ribbing Moliere over what "or else" means.
        I should have read the thread before making my previous post

        I think there is a good balance in there somewhere and most local leaders can find it. We've got 8 priests and all tell me they want to serve a mission, but I'd wager that 2-3 really want to serve. The numbers were less than that 1 year ago so I'm making some progress I guess.
        "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

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        • #484
          Originally posted by Moliere View Post
          Maybe a tad, but you should look through the AP manual sometime and see if I'm really overstating it. There's one diagram in there that places a mission between getting the priesthood and exaltation.
          I'll look. I hope they didn't leave making Eagle Scout off the diagram.
          “There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
          ― W.H. Auden

          "God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
          -- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons

          "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
          --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

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          • #485
            Originally posted by LA Ute View Post
            I'll look. I hope they didn't leave making Eagle Scout off the diagram.
            Indeed. Also, I hope they didn't leave off graduation from (not "attendance at") a LDS Church-sponsored college or university.
            Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

            For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

            Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

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            • #486
              Originally posted by Moliere View Post
              I should have read the thread before making my previous post

              I think there is a good balance in there somewhere and most local leaders can find it. We've got 8 priests and all tell me they want to serve a mission, but I'd wager that 2-3 really want to serve. The numbers were less than that 1 year ago so I'm making some progress I guess.
              We've created a culture where it's very, very difficult to say you don't want to serve. So then you get kids who get to 19 and go anyway and have a horrible experience (some will have a good one too, to be fair). Or you have kids who have decided not to go but say they will until it's about time, and then the speculation over what major sin is at fault starts. Or you have kids that see it as something they have to do in order to save face, lie about the fact they've screwed half the slutty girls in HS, and then go and are active detriments to the work (this describes several people in my high school).
              Awesomeness now has a name. Let me introduce myself.

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              • #487
                Originally posted by myboynoah View Post
                Indeed. Also, I hope they didn't leave off graduation from (not "attendance at") a LDS Church-sponsored college or university.
                “There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
                ― W.H. Auden

                "God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
                -- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons

                "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
                --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

                Comment

                • #488
                  Originally posted by LA Ute View Post
                  Ha. That is a great emoticon
                  Fitter. Happier. More Productive.
                  sigpic

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                  • #489
                    Gas at church is not reserved for deacons class.
                    Wife came home from RS activity complaining that somebody near her was letting them fly. It got so bad she had to change seats.
                    I intend to live forever.
                    So far, so good.
                    --Steven Wright

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                    • #490
                      Originally posted by Eddie View Post
                      The RS certainly doesn't have a monopoly on beating up its members as not being worthy. The men have gotten that treatment for as long as I can remember.


                      After church yesterday my teen daughter says "Guess what our lesson was about today? It shouldn't be too hard, there are only three topics to choose from."

                      I guessed "the Temple"?

                      She said "no, families"

                      But I was in the right ball park. She reports that most YM lessons revolve around the temple, eternal families, and the law of chastity.
                      That is alright. The young men's lesson are one of three.

                      1. Do your priesthood duty
                      2. Word of Wisdom
                      3. Law of chastity.
                      "Be a philosopher. A man can compromise to gain a point. It has become apparent that a man can, within limits, follow his inclinations within the arms of the Church if he does so discreetly." - The Walking Drum

                      "And here’s what life comes down to—not how many years you live, but how many of those years are filled with bullshit that doesn’t amount to anything to satisfy the requirements of some dickhead you’ll never get the pleasure of punching in the face." – Adam Carolla

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                      • #491
                        Had a very beautiful testimony meeting, including this:

                        "I have been on safari in Africa, skiing in the Swiss Alps, fishing for pirhanna in the Amazon, and took a submarine to periscope depth under the Arctic ice, but none of those things compared to the joy I felt when I first held my newborn son."

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                        • #492
                          "In my experience, just from what I've seen, the people who aren't interested in staying in the church, or who have doubts about it, generally it's because they have some kind of sin that they're hiding. They're ashamed of it and that's what keeps them away, or makes them want to leave. If they would just take care of their issues, they wouldn't be ashamed, and they'd want to stay. Sure, there are some exceptions, but generally that's what I've seen."

                          My FIL told me that on Saturday. He's a bishop.
                          Visca Catalunya Lliure

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                          • #493
                            Originally posted by Tim View Post
                            "In my experience, just from what I've seen, the people who aren't interested in staying in the church, or who have doubts about it, generally it's because they have some kind of sin that they're hiding. They're ashamed of it and that's what keeps them away, or makes them want to leave. If they would just take care of their issues, they wouldn't be ashamed, and they'd want to stay. Sure, there are some exceptions, but generally that's what I've seen."

                            My FIL told me that on Saturday. He's a bishop.
                            You may disagree, and that doesn't seem to make much sense based on my experience, but isn't he just being honest based on his experience? Is he wrong just because you and I might disagree?
                            I'm like LeBron James.
                            -mpfunk

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                            • #494
                              Originally posted by smokymountainrain View Post
                              You may disagree, and that doesn't seem to make much sense based on my experience, but isn't he just being honest based on his experience? Is he wrong just because you and I might disagree?
                              Yes, he's wrong. His experience is biased by the fact that he expects that if someone isn't involved or wants to leave, it must be because of sin. Talking to my wife, there's no doubt that he felt that way LONG before he became a bishop. I say he's wrong because one's experience in observing people has no bearing on the reality of why each person leaves.
                              Visca Catalunya Lliure

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                              • #495
                                Originally posted by smokymountainrain View Post
                                You may disagree, and that doesn't seem to make much sense based on my experience, but isn't he just being honest based on his experience? Is he wrong just because you and I might disagree?
                                If he's basing it only on his experience, then he's being dishonest. A big part of the bishop's job is to listen to the sins of his flock, so of course the people he hears from are people who have strayed, but most people who leave the Church don't go see the bishop first, they just stop going. Also, a lot of people stop following the "rules" after they decide to leave. That doesn't mean that's the reason they left in the first place. If not dishonest, then the FIL's assertion is pretty ignorant.
                                "The mind is not a boomerang. If you throw it too far it will not come back." ~ Tom McGuane

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