I learned in church today

[San Juan Sun]

That just means you're not a true believer.

True believers think the Second Coming will actually happen, so why would they make fun of somebody else for thinking the same thing?

You seriously see no difference between Mr Camping and Co. and the Church's doctrine over the Second Coming?

[CardiacCoug]

You seriously see no difference between Mr Camping and Co. and the Church's doctrine over the Second Coming?

Just that Camping put a date on it.

That's not enough of a difference that MORMONS of all people should be the ones to make fun of it in church. Atheists can make fun of it, sure

It's OK if you don't believe in the reality of the Second Coming. No big deal.

[San Juan Sun]

Just that Camping put a date on it.

That's not enough of a difference that MORMONS of all people should be the ones to make fun of it in church. Atheists can make fun of it, sure

It's OK if you don't believe in the reality of the Second Coming. No big deal.

To me, that's a HUGE difference. Also, consider the billboards, media campaign, etc. Compared to the LDS position that "no man knows" the date, and I don't see much of a parallel position. There are similarities, sure, but they are shared amongst most of Christianity, and exclude Mormons by the predominant meme of the Rapture. Pretty substantial differences IMO.

BTW, I love the way you try to put words in my mouth about the Second Coming. Twice. Beat up straw men much?

[CardiacCoug]

To me, that's a HUGE difference. Also, consider the billboards, media campaign, etc. Compared to the LDS position that "no man knows" the date, and I don't see much of a parallel position. There are similarities, sure, but they are shared amongst most of Christianity, and exclude Mormons by the predominant meme of the Rapture. Pretty substantial differences IMO.

BTW, I love the way you try to put words in my mouth about the Second Coming. Twice. Beat up straw men much?

Lighten up, Francis. I'm kidding.

But I do find it interesting that Mormons revere and honor their ancestors who had the faith to sacrifice their homes and other material possessions for their religion. And then they mock and belittle the Camping followers who did the same thing.

That attitude just doesn't seem very self-aware.

And Mormons have media campaigns, just FYI.

[San Juan Sun]

Lighten up, Francis. I'm kidding.

Really? Because you've been repeating the same thoughts about Mr Camping for a couple of weeks now. I'll take you at your word though.

But I do find it interesting that Mormons revere and honor their ancestors who had the faith to sacrifice their homes and other material possessions for their religion. And then they mock and belittle the Camping followers who did the same thing.

That attitude just doesn't seem very self-aware.

If you're referring to me, I think you assume too much about my supposed "Mormon ancestors". Furthermore, I don't think you can paint religious people who act on their convictions with the same brush. It seems to be a pretty relativist argument to me. While Mormons, Mr Camping, The Taliban, The Pilgrims, Falun Gong, and Sikhs all share superficial similarities, wouldn't you agree that they have profound differences too?

[CardiacCoug]

Really? Because you've been repeating the same thoughts about Mr Camping for a couple of weeks now. I'll take you at your word though.



If you're referring to me, I think you assume too much about my supposed "Mormon ancestors". Furthermore, I don't think you can paint religious people who act on their convictions with the same brush. It seems to be a pretty relativist argument to me. While Mormons, Mr Camping, The Taliban, The Pilgrims, Falun Gong, and Sikhs all share superficial similarities, wouldn't you agree that they have profound differences too?

I'm serious with what I'm saying about Mr. Camping. I was kidding when I said you don't believe in the Second Coming, and I thought that's what you meant.

You don't revere the early Mormons who gave up everything to follow a Millennialist? They are our religious if not literal ancestors, I realize you may not be literally descended from any of them.

Sure, different religions believe different things. But I think it's silly for people who believe in God to make fun of the way other people believe in God. It's one of my pet peeves. And when Mormons make fun of the way other Christians believe in the Second Coming, it's really the equivalent of Sunni Muslims making fun of something Shia Muslims believe. It's ridiculous.

[San Juan Sun]

Sure, different religions believe different things. But I think it's silly for people who believe in God to make fun of the way other people believe in God. It's one of my pet peeves.

So only non-religious people get to make fun of others beliefs?

I guess we see it differently. It doesn't seem like a big deal to me.

[PaloAltoCougar]

The back and forth between SJS and CC is interesting to me, as it reflects some inner conflicts I've had over the Camping prediction. It's always amusing, at least on some level, when anyone makes a bold prediction and then is proven wrong; our sports threads are filled with such entertainment. But CC's right that I ought to be a bit more respectful of those who sincerely and faithfully have placed their bets on the wrong horse.

If the way I've lived my life proves to have been a huge mistake, I'll expect, and perhaps even look forward to, an eternity of good-natured joshin' from those who believed differently.

[TripletDaddy]

It is probably fair to say that Mos shouldn't be making fun of anyone's religious beliefs, least of all in a Sunday School class.

Camping's mathematical approach to religion is what I found humorous, much like when creationists try to back into 7000 years. But cardiac is right....fundamentally, what is the difference between campings beliefs and ours? We believe that Christ is going to come down, split a mountain, angels will be blowing trumpets, that some will be exalted while others will be rewarded less, that bodies will come out of graves and that there are going to be great battles. What's the difference?

[byu71]

Someone said today they have had several prayers answered in the last few weeks. Nice, I believe in prayer and I believe in prayers being answered and God actually speaking to us through inspiration.

He then said even when our prayers aren't answered, God is still answering our prayers, he just said no. I don't agree there. I don't think God answers every prayer. In my way of thinking, that makes it too easy on God. Prayer answered, proves there is a God. Prayer answered no, proves there is a God.

Using that thought process, prayer answered is just a coincedence. Prayer not answered, not coincedence.

I believe sometimes he answers yes, sometimes no and sometimes he just doesn't answer.

[wuapinmon]

The Church in New Orleans after Katrina was ripe with what I called Millenial Fever. People were certain that Jesus was coming back any minute after Rita hit Lake Charles.

It got uncomfortable. As long as I´m alive, Jesus isn´t coming back. Bank on it. My patriarch was especially spiritual, so everyone told me.

[RobinFinderson]

It got uncomfortable. As long as I´m alive, Jesus isn´t coming back. Bank on it. My patriarch was especially spiritual, so everyone told me.

Then it appears that I will outlive you, and that Jesus will return when I am an old man. My blessing says that I will have the opportunity to work hand-in-hand with my fellow saints to build up Jackson county, and that if I choose, I will be able to be *twinkled* so that I might see Christ return in all of His glory.

To me that sounds like the gathering of saints will take place in my lifetime, that I will live to be pretty old, and that infirmities of my age may leave me wanting to die, but if I choose, I could live to see Christ's return and 'never taste of death.' So I'm 37 right now... I hope that gives everyone some perspective on when all of this is going down (though I wouldn't buy any billboards announcing this to the world).

[myboynoah]

Then it appears that I will outlive you, and that Jesus will return when I am an old man. My blessing says that I will have the opportunity to work hand-in-hand with my fellow saints to build up Jackson county, and that if I choose, I will be able to be *twinkled* so that I might see Christ return in all of His glory.

To me that sounds like the gathering of saints will take place in my lifetime, that I will live to be pretty old, and that infirmities of my age may leave me wanting to die, but if I choose, I could live to see Christ's return and 'never taste of death.' So I'm 37 right now... I hope that gives everyone some perspective on when all of this is going down (though I wouldn't buy any billboards announcing this to the world).

C'mon Robin, you know how this works. Your apostacy sent us right back to start again.

Thanks a lot.

[Goatnapper'96]

We have a family in our little town where just about every member, including parents, has some level of autism. Despite this they own their own home , provide for themselves and their six kids and have sent one son and one daughter on a mission. While they don't have much they are amazingly independent. One of their daughters is in her late teens or perhaps 20. She is the most sever autistic in the home and will live at home her entire life. Every sunday she bares her testimony. I don't understand a damn word she says but it is often the most comforting few minutes, for me, of open mic sunday when she babbles about her kitties and friends.

A lady also bore her testimony. She has a son with a serious liver ailment and in her own words "I have been raising him to die." I actually cried. It was deep and chilling. I had one of my twins in my lap and just held her tighter. That is my conviction of the purpose of faith.

I actually really enjoy open mic sunday. If I am not uplifted I am entertained. Yesterday was leaning really heavily to the former.

[smokymountainrain]

I never made fun of Camping privately, publicly or even in my thoughts. As LDS we believe too many crazy things for me to belittle somebody else's crazy religious beliefs.