I learned in church today

[Jeff Lebowski]

I highly doubt SIEQ introduces himself as Dr. SIEQ, or makes it a point to insinuate that he is an intellectual. Most people who do so do it to assert their superiority over those around them. That just doesn't fit SIEQ's m.o.

I was just teasing him.

[TripletDaddy]

I don't think "new" is in the title of the thread. I always saw it as a place to share what was taught (and potentially learned) in church, regardless of whether or not it was new information.

Ironic in that the purpose of the thread isnt really to share what one learned in Church, but rather to compile a list of wacky things people say and do at Church. Maybe I have misjudged the tone of the thread, though.

My original question still stands. Much like Anton Ego, I'm all about the defense of the New. I'm not really interested in a blanket listing of everything that is taught in Church each week, as I have no doubts that someone is always teaching something every Sunday.

[Sleeping in EQ]

I was just teasing him.

That's what I assumed. I actually like to be called by my first name, or by "Brother SIEQ" if I'm feeling like a good fellow well met.

I get more than enough honorifics at official meetings of the muckety mucks.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Ironic in that the purpose of the thread isnt really to share what one learned in Church, but rather to compile a list of wacky things people say and do at Church.

Fair enough. Back on topic.

I learned that my son, who defies us at every turn and rejects our attempts to get him to go to church and is naughty enough to get kicked out of his class every week, was utterly dismayed to the point of anger and bitter tears to discover an empty bottle of wine in the recycle can a few weeks ago.

Nothing stings quite as badly as being "caught" by ones own kids.

[Eddie]

Of course. I post something about Utah (actually not even about Utah ... I said Mormon culture ... it just happens to much more prevalent here for obvious reasons) and instead of a discussion on the substance of my post, it's slam FM time.

The Stepford comment was what pissed people off, regardless of whether or not it was your main point.

This is it, exactly. When you say:

... has had some struggles here because she is much more the sassy outspoken Texan than the Stepford Utah girl...

How are we with teens from Utah supposed to take this?

Just a thought - when you want to have a meaningful discussion about a topic it might work better if you didn't throw stuff in that puts people on the defensive right off the bat.


That said - I do have to admit - I'd love to know what the difference is between a "sassy texan" and half the girls in the neighborhood who are mouthy pains in the ass and the furthest thing from a stepford wife I've ever met in spite of the fact that they were born and have lived their whole life in Utah. I'm just not seeing it.

I could see some differences in lifestyle and a lot more difficulty for non-LDS kids who move to Utah from out of state. I don't see it to the same degree for LDS kids. Not that there aren't differences - but I think they are more regional than religious based.

Implying that all of the local kids are Molly Mormon or Peter Priesthood and fall in step with everything that every church leader has ever said while reverently folding their arms and always giving the correct answer in Sunday School - wow. Maybe you DO live in a stepford neighborhood...



I'll readily admit that I've lived longer in Utah than out of Utah. And there are some strange unwritten traditions that I think are pretty quirky.

But I just don't see all of the huge differences that are described.

Now - if someone new comes along and says "hey - let's do things this way now..." I could certainly see them being shut down. But that isn't because they are from outside of Utah and are now living inside of Utah. That is because no one likes it when you mess with their traditions.

I see those differences from ward to ward even within the same stake.

Go ahead and tell a ward that they should make some small changes to how they pass the sacrament each Sunday and see how far you get. Is it because they are in Utah? I think you'd run into some grief no matter where you take new ideas into a place that has developed a traditional way of doing things.

[NorthwestUteFan]

I take the "sassy Texan" vs the "Stepford girl" as a definition of the active member spectrum, with "sassy" on one end of the teeter-totter and "Stepford" on the other.

A bell curve distribution would balance the sassiness with the Stepfordness, and everybody would fall somewhere in between.

Please tell me there are either NO or VERY FEW Stepfordians in your local ward/stake. Extend the age upward a bit, at least into the late 30's. Tell me whether these types are LESS or MORE 'compliant' in church meetings, in their callings, any time they are asked to do anything, etc.

If there are in fact none, then go ahead and be offended.

[NorthwestUteFan]

I learned...

if I am offended to the point we leave the church, then I am the one who needs to repent.(?)

Essentially either I need to forgive the person who offended me because what they said was untrue, or else I need to repent of my own misdeeds(?) because what the other person said WAS true.

Awesome.

[FMCoug]

This is it, exactly. When you say:
How are we with teens from Utah supposed to take this? Just a thought - when you want to have a meaningful discussion about a topic it might work better if you didn't throw stuff in that puts people on the defensive right off the bat.

Perhaps you should learn not to take offense so easily? Granted the "Stepford" comment could have been done without. But I never said anything to indicate that I thought this applied to ALL Utah teenagers. But the way things are parsed around here I guess I needed to be more specific.

By "sassy" I basically mean self-confident, has her own opinions, is not afraid to express them, call people out when they are being ignorant, etc. Like the other day when a girl in her seminary class made the comment that "Mormons are more spiritual than other people". The teacher didn't call her on it so my daughter did. I don't know about the rest of you but that is the kind of young woman I hope all my daughters become.

But maybe that is just tactless.

[falafel]

Perhaps you should learn not to take offense so easily?

Yes Eddie, as NWUF just reminded us, if you are offended, you need to repent.

[Eddie]

Perhaps you should learn not to take offense so easily? Granted the "Stepford" comment could have been done without. But I never said anything to indicate that I thought this applied to ALL Utah teenagers. But the way things are parsed around here I guess I needed to be more specific.

By "sassy" I basically mean self-confident, has her own opinions, is not afraid to express them, call people out when they are being ignorant, etc. Like the other day when a girl in her seminary class made the comment that "Mormons are more spiritual than other people". The teacher didn't call her on it so my daughter did. I don't know about the rest of you but that is the kind of young woman I hope all my daughters become.

But maybe that is just tactless.

Thanks for your response - And yes, not taking offense is a good plan for me to follow.

Perhaps part of my defensiveness is because my own daughter is one that I could see being described as stepford or self-righteous by someone who doesn't see beyond the exterior.

She goes to school to learn and gets irritated by ditzy girls who talk during class and interrupt so that she can't. She gets even more irritated by girls who pretend to be ditzy because they think that is what boys like.

She takes early morning seminary, even though we are in Utah, because she likes that the kids that are there are interested in more than just getting out of a school class. And she likes having an extra period to fit another academic class in her schedule.

She loves going to church (don't ask me where this came from...)

She loves reading her scriptures.

She doesn't understand the thought processes of those who rebel against good advice given by church leaders simply because they are church leaders and "I can do whatever I want".

To someone on the outside looking in, who hasn't ever had a conversation with her, she may appear to be a thoughless lamb who follows the crowd and works to not create any waves.

But they would be wrong.

That said - we have worked with her on being overly judgemental of those who she thinks are dumb for not seeing things as clearly as she does and for (from her perspective) choosing to make their lives more difficult than they have to be.

I would hope that my daughter would challenge thoughts as yours did. That is certainly something to be proud of.

[NorthwestUteFan]

eddie,
your daughter sounds like a wonderful young woman and you are very blessed to have such a great daughter. For the record, I do not consider a person like that to be a "Stepford", because it is apparent your daughter makes her own informed choices and lives by them.

Many of us pull out our hair striving to get our kids to make one or two good choices in a row, let alone actually living life right.

One of my boys is going to end up somewhat like that. The other two, on the other hand, are going to be very difficult to say the least.

[Eddie]

eddie,
your daughter sounds like a wonderful young woman and you are very blessed to have such a great daughter. For the record, I do not consider a person like that to be a "Stepford", because it is apparent your daughter makes her own informed choices and lives by them.

Many of us pull out our hair striving to get our kids to make one or two good choices in a row, let alone actually living life right.

One of my boys is going to end up somewhat like that. The other two, on the other hand, are going to be very difficult to say the least.

You'll notice that I didn't say anything about my son, who is also a teen...

[NorthwestUteFan]

You'll notice that I didn't say anything about my son, who is also a teen...

Celebrate the small victories.

[mUUser]

One can easily identify who are Christians at a baseball game. No further explanation.

[Moliere]

I learned that everyone will be judged based on the knowledge they have in this life. That buddhists will be judged based on Buddhism, Muslims on Islam, Mormons on Mormonism, etc. No one disputed this teaching, which I think is rad.