I learned in church today

[Portland Ute]

I suppose it's not a big deal, but it's more the principle. We talked about it shortly today at our Super Bowl party. My sister says i shouldn't go to the temple because I am not supporting my local leader. I say my local leader is a person that I disagree with.

I'll not comment on your sister's comments, out of respect for you, her brother, other than to strongly disagree.

Give me a break...

[Northwestcoug]

I think I may have mentioned this in the thread before, but there's something that's been bugging me that I wanted to say.

Our stake president has this rule that they close the doors when the sacrament begins and nobody is supposed to go in, which seems normal to me. They also don't take the sacrament outside in the foyer to those waiting out there, which is the weird part. He says it encourages people to be on time. I say it makes people not take their screaming toddlers outside because they want to participate in the sacrament.

It might not seem like a big deal, but our 21 month toddler was melting down and I was in the back of the chairs in the middle of the water portion trying to get her to calm down. finally my wife came up and took her from me, when I said "I think our stake president is an idiot.", whispered in her ear.

The water came after that and my wife took her out.

We ended up getting in an argument about it at home. I just think it's totally stupid to not take the sacrament outside. I get what the SP is trying to do, but it actually creates a less reverent sacrament meeting because of people who don't want to take their screaming toddlers outside and not renew their covenants.

I guess in the end it's what's in your heart, even if you end up missing hte sacrament, but I hate this kind of crap that has nothing to do with the church, and really is just some idea someone came up with. Stuff like taking the sacrament with your right hand or the deacons holding their hand behind their back while they pass. It has nothing to do with how we as people live the gospel.

I suppose it's not a big deal, but it's more the principle. We talked about it shortly today at our Super Bowl party. My sister says i shouldn't go to the temple because I am not supporting my local leader. I say my local leader is a person that I disagree with.

I dunno, it just bugs me. I shouldn't get bothered over stupid stuff, but when it caused an argument between my wife and I, it got me thinking more about it.

I felt kind of sad reading that part. I hope your sister comes to the realization that it's more important to support you more than your church leader.

[Moliere]

I think I may have mentioned this in the thread before, but there's something that's been bugging me that I wanted to say.

Our stake president has this rule that they close the doors when the sacrament begins and nobody is supposed to go in, which seems normal to me. They also don't take the sacrament outside in the foyer to those waiting out there, which is the weird part. He says it encourages people to be on time. I say it makes people not take their screaming toddlers outside because they want to participate in the sacrament.

It might not seem like a big deal, but our 21 month toddler was melting down and I was in the back of the chairs in the middle of the water portion trying to get her to calm down. finally my wife came up and took her from me, when I said "I think our stake president is an idiot.", whispered in her ear.

The water came after that and my wife took her out.

We ended up getting in an argument about it at home. I just think it's totally stupid to not take the sacrament outside. I get what the SP is trying to do, but it actually creates a less reverent sacrament meeting because of people who don't want to take their screaming toddlers outside and not renew their covenants.

I guess in the end it's what's in your heart, even if you end up missing hte sacrament, but I hate this kind of crap that has nothing to do with the church, and really is just some idea someone came up with. Stuff like taking the sacrament with your right hand or the deacons holding their hand behind their back while they pass. It has nothing to do with how we as people live the gospel.

I suppose it's not a big deal, but it's more the principle. We talked about it shortly today at our Super Bowl party. My sister says i shouldn't go to the temple because I am not supporting my local leader. I say my local leader is a person that I disagree with.

I dunno, it just bugs me. I shouldn't get bothered over stupid stuff, but when it caused an argument between my wife and I, it got me thinking more about it.

It's always funny to see a leader totally whiff on the root cause of the issue. Maybe it sacrament meeting were more inspirational or less dull people would actually want to attend. In the mean time he's just pissing off parents of young children.

This goes back to Niku's SP that is totally whiffing on the stake conference thing. SC sucks most of the time because the speakers totally suck. The music is boring. I'm usually in the back of the gym trying to keep kids quiet for 2 hours while they are bored out of their minds.

[pellegrino]

It's always funny to see a leader totally whiff on the root cause of the issue. Maybe it sacrament meeting were more inspirational or less dull people would actually want to attend. In the mean time he's just pissing off parents of young children.

This goes back to Niku's SP that is totally whiffing on the stake conference thing. SC sucks most of the time because the speakers totally suck. The music is boring. I'm usually in the back of the gym trying to keep kids quiet for 2 hours while they are bored out of their minds.

It would take a lot to make it exciting enough for me to go.

[The_Douger]

I'll not comment on your sister's comments, out of respect for you, her brother, other than to strongly disagree.

Give me a break...

You won't hurt my feelings. I am pretty pissed at her right now for that comment, but she's just one of those self righteous folks at times.

[Portland Ute]

There is a family that just moved into the ward a month ago.

The 2nd day they lived here was the January F&T meeting.

The dad got up that day.

He's not your typical Davis County (UT) Mormon.

He was either baptized or re-baptized in the past year. He's been through some very tough stuff in his life from what he has said. Divorce. Huge loss of fortune. Reading between the lines perhaps drugs/alcohol.

Anyway, he got up and told of his recent conversion a month ago.

It was inspiring to see how the Church and the Gospel of Jesus Christ had reclaimed this man. Given him hope. Taken him from the depths and given him hope.

The guy is an absolute breath of fresh air. He's got some character to him. Like I said, not the typical Peter Priesthood guy at all. But he's a changed man. A hopeful man. He brings a flavor to our ward and F&T meetings that is generally missing in the typical suburban Utah ward. He calls F&T meeting "Magic Sunday."

I love it.

Well, this week, before the meeting, since I hadn't had the chance, I walked up to him and introduced myself, welcomed him to the ward and told him that I appreciated his testimony and that it impacted me.

He got up again this week and, once again, it wasn't the typical thing you get from our ward.

He shared that he was at the depths. He'd lost his money. He'd lost his wife. His friends left when he'd lost his money. He shared that he called a friend who was LDS. The friend asked him if he believed in God. The friend told him to look to God.

The friend then told him "I love you."

My new neighbor then told us, to the shock of some I am sure, that he was holding a loaded gun while he had that conversation.

He broke down in tears.

He said that his friend saved his life. That God saved his life. That God loved him and he knew his friend loved him.

He then said, 'It's true..that John Lennon song...."

And he "sang" the phrase: "All you need is love...."

Regardless of the relationship with/doubts about/concerns regarding the LDS Church or God or whatever, there is no denying that the church and its teachings are absolutely life-changing for many people. It is transformative. It does work "miracles" in some peoples' lives. This guy turned his life around. He got baptized. He got re-married. He's happy.

Even as I continue to struggle to know my place in the church and its place in mine, I quietly smiled at this good neighbor of mine and his story and was happy for him that he had found something to give his life meaning...to give him hope....to make him happy....to rescue him from despair.

[OceanBlue]

Portland Ute, thank you for sharing that story. My heart was warmed by our little ward after todays F-T meeting. One of our members had cancer surgery this past week and their family members talked of the love and kindness that was shown to them by our ward. Our little southern ward is awesome.

Some of the stories on here about other Stakes worry me because we will most likely move one day and it would be difficult to adjust to strict rules.

[The Fourth Nephite]

You won't hurt my feelings. I am pretty pissed at her right now for that comment, but she's just one of those self righteous folks at times.

You sister may be a wonderful person, but in this matter, she's an absolute idiot. If you stood up in sacrament and yelled, "This is BS! Open the doors. Follow me, everybody!", then I might agree you were not supporting your leaders. A mere difference of opinion, where you share your thoughts with your wife is trivial.

And, oh, my heck, don't you and your wife have more important things to fight about? Getting in a fight over the sacrament is stupid. In this case everybody loses.

[Pheidippides]

I'm confused then, what are your issues? What could have made this situation better?

I have an answer for this. When I have time I'll type it out.

[Mrs. Funk]

Sacrament meeting with 1 PM church is the devil with an 18-month-old. If they locked us out or wouldn't let us take the sacrament in the foyer like the genius SP in The Douger's stake, there would be absolutely no point for us to go to the first hour of church. It's not like I"m actually able to get anything out of the talks while I'm manhandling my child to get him to sit still and bribing him with treats. If I can't take the sacrament, I might as well stay home. We're in the foyer by the time the water has been passed probably 50% of the time.

[The_Douger]

You sister may be a wonderful person, but in this matter, she's an absolute idiot. If you stood up in sacrament and yelled, "This is BS! Open the doors. Follow me, everybody!", then I might agree you were not supporting your leaders. A mere difference of opinion, where you share your thoughts with your wife is trivial.

And, oh, my heck, don't you and your wife have more important things to fight about? Getting in a fight over the sacrament is stupid. In this case everybody loses.

It wasn't really a fight.

She just felt I was being disrespectful to the calling of the SP.

And yes, I still think he's an idiot.

[Pheidippides]

I have an answer for this. When I have time I'll type it out.

Okay, here's my issue.

If I say so myself, I have magnified the hell out of this calling. I spend hours each week researching, fact checking, framing discussion, playing with stories. I do this because I want to talk about real history and real problems in a way that pushes people but doesn't alarm, that informs but doesn't panic. I am trying to save my friends my last 10 years of pain. I have little hope for me, but I want to give it to others. I present the information, let people decide for themselves, but try to give it a spiritual context. Brodie is in my lessons but in the background; Bushman is in the forefront. So to speak.

SU would almost certainly disapprove. LA Ute would approve, except for the part where he thinks I am a hypocrite because I play the apologist role.

The response has been overwhelming. My class is standing room only. I get all sorts of midweek emails and such asking what I think about x or y. People will ask me on the sly if I am teaching a given week so they can know whether they should come or not.

I am also a beneficiary of this. It keeps me engaged and fulfilled and active.

I am pretty sure that the HC made a full report back to the stake. And my fear is that the stake will put pressure on the bishop to reign me in. Not out of character. And that will destroy everything - I can't teach from a horrible manual, so I won't. Couple that with the TR incident the with my wife the other day and a couple of other things and I'm a bit paranoid perhaps.

I can teach a shitty lesson out of the shitty manual without any trouble. But for any fulfillment of me or my class I need to care. I worry.

[Harry Tic]

Okay, here's my issue.

If I say so myself, I have magnified the hell out of this calling. I spend hours each week researching, fact checking, framing discussion, playing with stories. I do this because I want to talk about real history and real problems in a way that pushes people but doesn't alarm, that informs but doesn't panic. I am trying to save my friends my last 10 years of pain. I have little hope for me, but I want to give it to others. I present the information, let people decide for themselves, but try to give it a spiritual context. Brodie is in my lessons but in the background; Bushman is in the forefront. So to speak.

SU would almost certainly disapprove. LA Ute would approve, except for the part where he thinks I am a hypocrite because I play the apologist roll.

The response has been overwhelming. My class is standing room only. I get all sorts of midweek emails and such asking what I think about x or y. People will ask me on the sly if I am teaching a given week so they can know whether they should come or not.

I am also a beneficiary of this. It keeps me engaged and fulfilled and active.

I am pretty sure that the HC made a full report back to the stake. And my fear is that the stake will put pressure on the bishop to reign me in. Not out of character. And that will destroy everything - I can't teach from a horrible manual, so I won't. Couple that with the TR incident the with my wife the other day and a couple of other things and I'm a bit paranoid perhaps.

I can teach a shitty lesson out of the shitty manual without any trouble. But for any fulfillment of me or my class I need to care. I worry.

Nikuman, let me be the first to say that this is exactly what the church needs if it is going to survive the internet age. There are a lot of dorks in church administration (both lay and professional) that don't yet get this. You're out in front, my friend.

[wuapinmon]

I can teach a shitty lesson out of the shitty manual without any trouble. But for any fulfillment of me or my class I need to care. I worry.

Hermano, I'm with you.

[Pheidippides]

Nikuman, let me be the first to say that this is exactly what the church needs if it is going to survive the internet age. There are a lot of dorks in church administration (both lay and professional) that don't yet get this. You're out in front, my friend.

I know. And for all the bitching I do here I care about the church and don't want it to fail. So it worries me that my efforts to help in the best way I know how may come to naught because I don't believe Martin Harris was a saint.