I learned in church today

[Portland Ute]

So, in my time of knowing her and in no effort of my own, she decides that she would like to start attending church again. She meets with her bishop and begins the formal repentance process from several years of "worldly living" and is starting to gain a little bit of confidence in her relationship with her and the church.

It would seem that when she decided she would like to attend church again, the repenting was done.

Everything after that was superfluous confession.

[MarkGrace]

I'm not the guy who wants to be calling stuff high and inside or low and tight, thank you very much.

MpFunk, smack this guy down!

[HauteCoug]

I learned in church [yesterday] that Christopher Columbus was a godly man.

I so wanted to break out the materials from one of my Spanish classes that clearly negates his being a good guy. Then there was dealing with the teacher who kept saying things like, "now, obviously the great and abominable church isn't JUST ONE CHURCH".

My favorite part of the lesson was when someone asked if we're given any indication if Laman or Lemuel had prayed to know the truth of Lehi's dream like Nephi had, and (a little louder than I had intended) I said, "obviously not - Nephi's the one who wrote this, not either of them" and I got some crusty stares. Luckily my dad chuckled.

[Dwight Schr-ute]

I learned in church [yesterday] that Christopher Columbus was a godly man.

I so wanted to break out the materials from one of my Spanish classes that clearly negates his being a good guy. Then there was dealing with the teacher who kept saying things like, "now, obviously the great and abominable church isn't JUST ONE CHURCH".

My favorite part of the lesson was when someone asked if we're given any indication if Laman or Lemuel had prayed to know the truth of Lehi's dream like Nephi had, and (a little louder than I had intended) I said, "obviously not - Nephi's the one who wrote this, not either of them" and I got some crusty stares. Luckily my dad chuckled.

Ha. I just had this exact conversation last night with our Sunday school president, who is also Native American. Apparently he struggled through that lesson with a bit tongue not sure how to respond given that he's only been in the calling for a few weeks now. I told him that it's similar to arguing that Laban was a good guy because he preserved the records so that Nephi could evenntually steal from him. One can be a tool while still being a tool.

[Green Lantern]

One can be a tool while still being a tool.

LOL. Thank you for that.

[Pelado]

Ha. I just had this exact conversation last night with our Sunday school president, who is also Native American. Apparently he struggled through that lesson with a bit tongue not sure how to respond given that he's only been in the calling for a few weeks now. I told him that it's similar to arguing that Laban was a good guy because he preserved the records so that Nephi could evenntually steal from him. One can be a tool while still being a tool.

One investigator that actually started to read the Book of Mormon gave it back to me the next day because he didn't agree with the whole "it's OK for Nephi to kill some dude in order to get the scriptures" line of reasoning. I wasn't sure how to resolve that concern. Any ideas?

[Indy Coug]

One investigator that actually started to read the Book of Mormon gave it back to me the next day because he didn't agree with the whole "it's OK for Nephi to kill some dude in order to get the scriptures" line of reasoning. I wasn't sure how to resolve that concern. Any ideas?

Spock's death scene in Star Trek: Wrath of Khan.

[Moliere]

One investigator that actually started to read the Book of Mormon gave it back to me the next day because he didn't agree with the whole "it's OK for Nephi to kill some dude in order to get the scriptures" line of reasoning. I wasn't sure how to resolve that concern. Any ideas?

Ask him to pray about it.

[Sleeping in EQ]

One investigator that actually started to read the Book of Mormon gave it back to me the next day because he didn't agree with the whole "it's OK for Nephi to kill some dude in order to get the scriptures" line of reasoning. I wasn't sure how to resolve that concern. Any ideas?

That passage really does a number on investigators.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Spock's death scene in Star Trek: Wrath of Khan.

OK, that was funny.

[The_Tick]

That passage really does a number on investigators.

We had an interesting conversation in GD when this topic came up. Can CUF verify?

According to a class member, in Jewish law it was your right to kill someone who steals from you. Was/is that true?

Nephi and Co. went to Laban with all their family valuables. A barter agreement for the plates. Laban had them thrown out and kept their valuables. Laban stole from them.

According to the participant, a teacher who is fairly smart, Nephi and his brothers would have been within their right under Jewish law to kill Laban for stealing their property.

So in essence...Nephi did nothing wrong.

Not sure where I sit according to this POV, but it was the first time in a long time that I have left GD with something that actually made me contemplate for a long time during the next week.

Ideas?

[Eddie]

We had an interesting conversation in GD when this topic came up. Can CUF verify?

According to a class member, in Jewish law it was your right to kill someone who steals from you. Was/is that true?

Nephi and Co. went to Laban with all their family valuables. A barter agreement for the plates. Laban had them thrown out and kept their valuables. Laban stole from them.

According to the participant, a teacher who is fairly smart, Nephi and his brothers would have been within their right under Jewish law to kill Laban for stealing their property.

So in essence...Nephi did nothing wrong.

Not sure where I sit according to this POV, but it was the first time in a long time that I have left GD with something that actually made me contemplate for a long time during the next week.

Ideas?

While this makes sense, I suppose, it is based on the assumption that an agreement was in place.

Otherwise, you have Laban stealing from Nephi and Co, and then you have Nephi stealing from Laban - in which case they both apparently merit death.

While I understand the conflict, to a degree...do these same investigators have the same conflict with the Bible and God telling the Israelites to kill every man, woman, child, cattle, sheep, goats, etc. in the city when invading the holy land? I mean, both are occurring during Old Testament times.

I'm just not sure why someone would have an issue with God ordering the death of one man to bring about his purposes when a few years earlier He was ordering the extermination of entire cities.

[San Juan Sun]

Any ideas?

Tell him that the Great Spirit constrained Nephi to do it.

[Pelado]

We had an interesting conversation in GD when this topic came up. Can CUF verify?

According to a class member, in Jewish law it was your right to kill someone who steals from you. Was/is that true?

Nephi and Co. went to Laban with all their family valuables. A barter agreement for the plates. Laban had them thrown out and kept their valuables. Laban stole from them.

According to the participant, a teacher who is fairly smart, Nephi and his brothers would have been within their right under Jewish law to kill Laban for stealing their property.

So in essence...Nephi did nothing wrong.

Not sure where I sit according to this POV, but it was the first time in a long time that I have left GD with something that actually made me contemplate for a long time during the next week.

Ideas?

There's a passage in D&C that says (if I remember right) that Nephi was justified in killing Laban because Laban had previously sought Nephi's life - a kind of delayed self-defense argument.

[Pelado]

While this makes sense, I suppose, it is based on the assumption that an agreement was in place.

Otherwise, you have Laban stealing from Nephi and Co, and then you have Nephi stealing from Laban - in which case they both apparently merit death.

While I understand the conflict, to a degree...do these same investigators have the same conflict with the Bible and God telling the Israelites to kill every man, woman, child, cattle, sheep, goats, etc. in the city when invading the holy land? I mean, both are occurring during Old Testament times.

I'm just not sure why someone would have an issue with God ordering the death of one man to bring about his purposes when a few years earlier He was ordering the extermination of entire cities.

He didn't seem like a big Old Testament fan.