I learned in church today

[Jacob]

Of course that topic would be news to Pres. Hinckley, and likely the church leadership, but is held as doctrinal by most of the membership. What percentage of the members present in the crowd agreed with the topic? Probably most of them.

Say what? Hinckley et al are unfamiliar with one of our foundational doctrines?

[Jacob]

We had a full hour of combined priesthood on how to do a home. teaching visit. Complete with a high priest role play demonstrating the ideal visit. "Brother, let me ask you a few questions while I take notes"

[Moliere]

Well, that significantly cuts down on the Book of Isaiah. Probably a move for the better.

I had no idea. Feel free to expound.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Say what? Hinckley et al are unfamiliar with one of our foundational doctrines?

We discussed this a bit in a few threads over the last few weeks, so I won't rehash it here. Others who are far more eloquent than I may want to expound.

[Q. Was God once a man?] "I don't know. ... I wouldn't say that... I don't know that we teach it... We don't know very much about [that]... I don't know a lot about it" - President Gordon B.Hinckley, interview in TIME Magazine, August 4, 1997

Spoiler for more info:

"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens. That is the great secret... It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God and to know...that he was once a man like us... " - Joseph Smith, the "King Follett Discourse," Journal of Discourses 6:3-4,Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith 342-345

The King Follet Discourse, as well as Lorenzo Snow's famous couplet, "As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become.", among other statements and teachings of the prophets over the first century of the church's existence pointed to that teaching, and many people (myself included until recently - IMHO this was one of the greatest ideas of the gospel) still hold it as valid foundational doctrine.

But as many here have noted, those statements and ideas were NOT canonized so they are not official church doctrine.

[Q. Was God once a man?] "I don't know. ... I wouldn't say that... I don't know that we teach it... We don't know very much about [that]... I don't know a lot about it" - President Gordon B.Hinckley, interview in TIME Magazine, August 4, 1997

Pres. Hinckley essentially shot that down entirely with the above statement, and further statements to Mike Wallace on the 60 Minutes interview.

Or, was he 'lying in service to truth'? I doubt it. I believe the church has moved beyond lying to cover itself from bad publicity, and Google would uncover any 'misstatements' anyway.

[All-American]

I had no idea. Feel free to expound.

Irony/sarcasm abounds in the Old Testament, and particularly in the writings of Isaiah. I don't have much time to say a lot about it today, but here's an article discussing irony in the Bible generally.

Down through the ages prophets, rabbis, and preachers have made themselves more appealing and their views more memorable by the effective use of many kinds of humor, including irony. Sometimes misunderstood by their listeners, they were more often misunderstood by their readers. In this matter, Jesus was no exception.

http://www.biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/myers/moore.pdf

[TexTechCoug]

i learned that we will be judged based on written records or books, and that this will include the newspaper.

[Maximus]

Of course that topic would be news to Pres. Hinckley, and likely the church leadership, but is held as doctrinal by most of the membership. What percentage of the members present in the crowd agreed with the topic? Probably most of them.

Doesnt the gospel principles manual actually teach that? Let alone joseph smith and many other church leaders. Did Hinckley ever say anything against the idea?

edit: just saw your response to jacob.

anyways, from the gospel principles manual:

Exaltation is eternal life, the kind of life God lives. He lives in great glory. He is perfect. He possesses all knowledge and all wisdom. He is the Father of spirit children. He is a creator. We can become like our Heavenly Father. This is exaltation.

If we prove faithful to the Lord, we will live in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom of heaven. We will become exalted, to live with our Heavenly Father in eternal families. Exaltation is the greatest gift that Heavenly Father can give His children

Those who receive exaltation in the celestial kingdom through faith in Jesus Christ will receive special blessings. The Lord has promised, “All things are theirs” (D&C 76:59). These are some of the blessings given to exalted people:

1. They will live eternally in the presence of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ (see D&C 76:62).
2. They will become gods (see D&C 132:20–23).
3. They will be united eternally with their righteous family members and will be able to have eternal increase.
4. They will receive a fulness of joy.
5. They will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have—all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge (see D&C 132:19–20). President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote: “The Father has promised through the Son that all that he has shall be given to those who are obedient to His commandments. They shall increase in knowledge, wisdom, and power, going from grace to grace, until the fulness of the perfect day shall burst upon them”

[doctorcoug]

I learned that we will be judged based upon the sporting events we watch. Being one of the lone BYU fans, I made it clear to the Ute fans that I'm going to heaven

[Jacob]

We discussed this a bit in a few threads over the last few weeks, so I won't rehash it here. Others who are far more eloquent than I may want to expound.

Spoiler for more info:

The King Follet Discourse, as well as Lorenzo Snow's famous couplet, "As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become.", among other statements and teachings of the prophets over the first century of the church's existence pointed to that teaching, and many people (myself included until recently - IMHO this was one of the greatest ideas of the gospel) still hold it as valid foundational doctrine.

But as many here have noted, those statements and ideas were NOT canonized so they are not official church doctrine.



Pres. Hinckley essentially shot that down entirely with the above statement, and further statements to Mike Wallace on the 60 Minutes interview.

Or, was he 'lying in service to truth'? I doubt it. I believe the church has moved beyond lying to cover itself from bad publicity, and Google would uncover any 'misstatements' anyway.

Seems like two entirely different questions: Can man become a god and was God once a man. The Hinckley interview you cited only referred to the latter while in this thread you rejected the former. Relying on that interview seems silly anyway unless you are ready to accept that caffeinated soda is against the wow. No need to dig into all this here,. But you admit that most members believe this teaching to be doctrine and scripture and I think that might suffice to conclude that it is.

[Portland Ute]

i learned that we will be judged based on written records or books, and that this will include the newspaper.

You had the same lesson.

Apparently, Twitter and Facebook will be presented in our prosecution.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Seems like two entirely different questions: Can man become a god and was God once a man. The Hinckley interview you cited only referred to the latter while in this thread you rejected the former. Relying on that interview seems silly anyway unless you are ready to accept that caffeinated soda is against the wow. No need to dig into all this here,. But you admit that most members believe this teaching to be doctrine and scripture and I think that might suffice to conclude that it is.

It appears the error I made was I apparently conflated the two doctrinal issues.

But on second thought, it seems the basic revelations concerning the second issue always addressed the first. Thus it stands to reason that I could see them as two sides of the same coin. Apparently the church doesn't believe that now.

[Surfah]

I learned today that while I have had to forgive some large offenses in my life, they pale in comparison to what many others have faced. And I suck at forgiveness.

[pellegrino]

Doesnt the gospel principles manual actually teach that? Let alone joseph smith and many other church leaders. Did Hinckley ever say anything against the idea?

edit: just saw your response to jacob.

anyways, from the gospel principles manual:

Exaltation is eternal life, the kind of life God lives. He lives in great glory. He is perfect. He possesses all knowledge and all wisdom. He is the Father of spirit children. He is a creator. We can become like our Heavenly Father. This is exaltation.

If we prove faithful to the Lord, we will live in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom of heaven. We will become exalted, to live with our Heavenly Father in eternal families. Exaltation is the greatest gift that Heavenly Father can give His children

Those who receive exaltation in the celestial kingdom through faith in Jesus Christ will receive special blessings. The Lord has promised, “All things are theirs” (D&C 76:59). These are some of the blessings given to exalted people:

1. They will live eternally in the presence of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ (see D&C 76:62).
2. They will become gods (see D&C 132:20–23).
3. They will be united eternally with their righteous family members and will be able to have eternal increase.
4. They will receive a fulness of joy.
5. They will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have—all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge (see D&C 132:19–20). President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote: “The Father has promised through the Son that all that he has shall be given to those who are obedient to His commandments. They shall increase in knowledge, wisdom, and power, going from grace to grace, until the fulness of the perfect day shall burst upon them”

that was all read in our EQ lesson

[Moliere]

that was all read in our EQ lesson

This was posted in the Evolution thread, but I guess it belongs here as well:

Man is the child of God, formed in the divine image and endowed with divine attributes, and even as the infant son of an earthly father and mother is capable in due time of becoming a man, so the undeveloped offspring of celestial parentage is capable, by experience through ages and aeons, of evolving into a God.

This is from the 1909 1st Presidency Statement on evolution, which was signed by Joseph F. Smith, John R. Winder and Anthon H. Lund. Can you get more authoritative than the 1st presidency signed statement? Not really, except that I'd consider it to be Category B.

[Maximus]

This was posted in the Evolution thread, but I guess it belongs here as well:



This is from the 1909 1st Presidency Statement on evolution, which was signed by Joseph F. Smith, John R. Winder and Anthon H. Lund. Can you get more authoritative than the 1st presidency signed statement? Not really, except that I'd consider it to be Category B.

The scripture in D&C posted above is pretty clear IMO. Category A as you call it.