I learned in church today

[TripletDaddy]

I was in Pri for a year or so. My companion teacher would often no show and it pissed me off to no end because since men are child molesters and women apparently aren't, I had to scramble to find someone that was willing to sit in the room with me to make sure I didn't attack the kids, I guess. After awhile, I stopped caring what the Pri presidency thought and simply taught the class solo. If someone popped by and noticed I was solo and wanted to find someone, I had no problem with it, but I stopped doing it myself because I didn't see much point in it.

People that flake on the Pri calling likely do so because they feel that Pri is little more than babysitting. Lessons are very simple and require almost zero preparation (youn can prepare but if you dont, nobody really knows), you spend a lot of time singing and coloring, and the kids can't really tell if you are making things up or not. When someone doesn't see the point in doing a particular task, it is much easier to ignore the task altogether and frankly primary is a calling that is very easy to not take seriously at all.

What flakes don't realize is that there are two aspects to fulfilling a calling. One is the spiritual aspect. If you are a non believer or otherwise unenthusiastic about the gospel, this aspect will not motivate you. The second aspect has nothing to do with the gospel or the spirit, and everything to do with simply doing what you agreed to do and having some concern for how your selfish and lazy behavior affects everyone else.

If you aren't going to do the calling, say no. Enough with this "never say no to callings" BS. By all means say no if you aren't going to do it. Because if you say yes and don't do it, you might be a bit of a selfish Moran. My companion teacher is a nice person, but to this day I have a hard time taking him seriously knowing that when push comes to shove, this is a guy who has no qualms about looking out only for himself.

[Paperback Writer]

MJ has been in two primary presidencies and both times I've ended up substituting just about every other week with no notice. Usually someone will just not show up and not get a sub. Sometimes they would call her 10 minutes before church and tell her they were out of town and wouldn't be there and say they couldn't find a sub. We'd then find out they never really tried. I've been in wards where the primary had at least one person called as a permanent sub to help out in these situations.

This is Mrs. D's exact experience in the primary presidency as well. She can pretty much count on getting at least one if not 2-3 texts each week at 10:55 saying "hey, we won't be there. Sorry we couldn't find a sub". As if they even tried.

Maybe the primary teacher did try to find a substitute teacher and was not successful. That was often my experience during my primary teaching days in a very large primary. Nobody wanted to teach, let alone sub, and every parent of the kids I taught would turn me down..."I can't miss RS, I'm not available, etc". There were even two permanent subs called and they would turn down requests. I was once told, "I've already subbed this month and was told by the PP that I would only need to teach once a month". Another lectured me, "While my kid is in primary, he is your responsibility, not mine. It's your calling (they ignored the part where I would be out of town)." And this is not trying to find a sub the night before, this was a month in advance when I knew I would be out of town. They PP was not helpful either, "It's your job to find a sub..." She was burned out. Finally, I'd make arrangements with the other teacher who taught the same group to combine classes, which would mean well over a dozen kids, when the other needed a substitute because every teacher faced this problem. It was a crappy ward that was constantly in need of primary teachers because of the size of the primary. A corollary I formed was that the more kids a family had in primary, the greater the chance that neither parent served in the primary and it was almost a guarantee that they would never sub.

Anyway, ward boundaries changed and new wards were formed. A few months back, I was asked to teach in primary again and I turned it down because I would need to find a sub at least once a month. The 2nd counselor mentioned that getting a sub had been a problem in the past but this was a new ward; time for a fresh start...would I accept?. I then mentioned that I had taught a couple of his kids during my years of being a primary teacher and his wife had turned me down every time when I called to ask her to sub and teach their son or daughter.

[pellegrino]

A few months back, I was asked to teach in primary again and I turned it down because I would need to find a sub at least once a month. The 2nd counselor mentioned that getting a sub had been a problem in the past but this was a new ward; time for a fresh start...would I accept?. I then mentioned that I had taught a couple of his kids during my years of being a primary teacher and his wife had turned me down every time when I called to ask her to sub and teach their son or daughter.

and then he said . . . ?

[Indy Coug]

This thread is so weird.

[Moliere]

This thread is so weird.

That's because church is weird.

[jay santos]

I'm a primary teacher, and my wife is a former primary president. It is true, primary teachers often drop the ball and miss church and don't get substitutes. But this is also part of my "dial it back a little" complaint about how we do Mormonism. If your team teacher doesn't show up, just chill out and teach your lesson. If you're the primary president and someone doesn't show up, you walk over to Gospel Doctrine and grab someone. It's just not that big of a deal. And how is the bishop involved in any of this?

[FN Phat]

I fall in the middle. I team teach with my wife and we are usually spot on. She is better at finding a sub than I am. There are times that I would rather take the family out to eat on Sunday and have a Family Fun Day. When that happens, it is usually a last minute decision while we are getting ready for church. My wife usually finds a sub in those cases but sometimes not. She frets over it but I forget about it in less that 2 seconds.

[Paperback Writer]

and then he said . . . ?

He covered for his wife, "She must have had a good reason not to sub because she loves teaching children", which may well have been the case. The problem I faced was that I'm good friends with both the PP counselors and often get asked during GD to sub for primary which I don't mind doing. Many Sundays, I hope Primary needs a sub so I can skip GD and Priesthood. Consequently, I came recommended for a permenant calling as a teacher. But I'm not willing to do it as long as I'm on the hook to find a substitute. In my ward, there are more EQ guys teaching primary then females so there's more men in the primary than in EQ. Probably says a lot about the quality of instruction between EQ and RS because there are many mothers in Zion who don't want to miss RS (or want a break from their kids).

[Goatnapper'96]

I was in Pri for a year or so. My companion teacher would often no show and it pissed me off to no end because since men are child molesters and women apparently aren't, I had to scramble to find someone that was willing to sit in the room with me to make sure I didn't attack the kids, I guess. After awhile, I stopped caring what the Pri presidency thought and simply taught the class solo. If someone popped by and noticed I was solo and wanted to find someone, I had no problem with it, but I stopped doing it myself because I didn't see much point in it.

People that flake on the Pri calling likely do so because they feel that Pri is little more than babysitting. Lessons are very simple and require almost zero preparation (youn can prepare but if you dont, nobody really knows), you spend a lot of time singing and coloring, and the kids can't really tell if you are making things up or not. When someone doesn't see the point in doing a particular task, it is much easier to ignore the task altogether and frankly primary is a calling that is very easy to not take seriously at all.

What flakes don't realize is that there are two aspects to fulfilling a calling. One is the spiritual aspect. If you are a non believer or otherwise unenthusiastic about the gospel, this aspect will not motivate you. The second aspect has nothing to do with the gospel or the spirit, and everything to do with simply doing what you agreed to do and having some concern for how your selfish and lazy behavior affects everyone else.

If you aren't going to do the calling, say no. Enough with this "never say no to callings" BS. By all means say no if you aren't going to do it. Because if you say yes and don't do it, you might be a bit of a selfish Moran. My companion teacher is a nice person, but to this day I have a hard time taking him seriously knowing that when push comes to shove, this is a guy who has no qualms about looking out only for himself.

I was in a similar situation. I take my wife and when she isn't available I just leave the door open. Which can be a bit of a problem because I am like the guy from "Good Morning Vietnam" who was in artillery...."just play it loud, okay!?" I think the rule is ridiculous so if the entire "Farm Posse" who hangs out in the foyer hears my entire lesson, goodon'em!

I think that there is a place to speak more on the practical aspect of the Church organization but people shy away from that and focus only on the spiritual aspect, which as you pointed out doesn't appeal to all. I think there is merit in occasionaly speaking that this is a religious community and we all have do "put our shoulder to the wheel" not because we want to be married for the eternities and copulate often enough to create inhabitants for worlds without number, but because if there aren't enough shoulders at the wheel everything gets all eff'd up.

[Copelius]

I think that there is a place to speak more on the practical aspect of the Church organization but people shy away from that and focus only on the spiritual aspect, which as you pointed out doesn't appeal to all. I think there is merit in occasionaly speaking that this is a religious community and we all have do "put our shoulder to the wheel" not because we want to be married for the eternities and copulate often enough to create inhabitants for worlds without number, but because if there aren't enough shoulders at the wheel everything gets all eff'd up.

If I am ever in a position to issue callings, I think I will quote you. In fact maybe I will quote you while trying to recruit additional choir members right now.

Interesting side note, after four years in the artillery my exit hearing test was better than the baseline they set for me going in.

[jay santos]

I think that there is a place to speak more on the practical aspect of the Church organization but people shy away from that and focus only on the spiritual aspect, which as you pointed out doesn't appeal to all. I think there is merit in occasionaly speaking that this is a religious community and we all have do "put our shoulder to the wheel" not because we want to be married for the eternities and copulate often enough to create inhabitants for worlds without number, but because if there aren't enough shoulders at the wheel everything gets all eff'd up.

There is some wisdom in this. If you're involved in a community and are gaining benefit from it: whether that be spiritual benefits or social or benefits for your family or whatever, you need to do your portion. On the flip side (and I know it doesn't work this way in the military and maybe not anywhere in the 208), it's not a bad thing to stand up the system when it requires stupid, non-value-add, time wasting kind of stuff. When you're in a YW presidency meeting and the YW president says they need you to spend hours and hours doing decorations for the young women's in excellence because they really need it in order to have a speerchul night, then it's OK to just say no (real example from my wife's meeting on Sunday).

[Joe Public]

I wonder if some people would have difficulty squaring that with the Standard of Truth ethos that is firmly embedded in the LDS faith. I've heard more than one local leader explain over the years that callings are to help us grow, but that all-powerful Jesus and his church will do just fine with or without our help.

EDIT: For the record, I do agree with GN that things do in actuality get "all eff'd up" when there isn't sufficient effort by members of an organization to support that organization.

[Goatnapper'96]

There is some wisdom in this. If you're involved in a community and are gaining benefit from it: whether that be spiritual benefits or social or benefits for your family or whatever, you need to do your portion. On the flip side (and I know it doesn't work this way in the military and maybe not anywhere in the 208), it's not a bad thing to stand up the system when it requires stupid, non-value-add, time wasting kind of stuff. When you're in a YW presidency meeting and the YW president says they need you to spend hours and hours doing decorations for the young women's in excellence because they really need it in order to have a speerchul night, then it's OK to just say no (real example from my wife's meeting on Sunday).

We don't do cutesy decorations in the 208. The problem with all you cosmopolitan mormons along the WF is you are spoiled and in between binge spending at Shape Clothing or Sexy Modest Lingerie, for the record I preferred my lingerie as raunchy and dirty as my money could buy, is y'all just don't have enough chores to do. Idle hands are the devil's workshop. Buck hay, build an altar to Taysom Hill....go deer hunting or whatever it takes to find something to do so that you don't become funny and not funny ha-ha.

I agree with you that it is OK to say something is stupid. There is merit if after protesting and you are outvoted to put your shoulder to the wheel but I think adults are usually savy enough to know when is the right time to put your shoulder to the wheel and when to say ef it.

[Paperback Writer]

I agree with you that it is OK to say something is stupid. There is merit if after protesting and you are outvoted to put your shoulder to the wheel but I think adults are usually savy enough to know when is the right time to put your shoulder to the wheel and when to say ef it.

Maybe folks in the vaunted 208 are more "Mormon savy" than elsewhere but my experience is that if there's a way to weigh down the handcart with a bunch of extra, needless stuff then many Mormons will find a way to do just that. Then they will "rally the troops" with the shout "put your shoulder to the wheel" or for the Shakespeare aficionados, "once more into the breach , dear friends, once more". When someone says, "Take the damn piano out of the handcart", they are scolded with not sustaining their leaders or not magnifying their callings. And I'm not even on the WF.

I think what some here are saying is that before I put my shoulder to the wheel once more, I'd like to take some of the needless wieght out of the handcart and question the handcart packing list in the CHOI that far too many consider sacred. Also, why I'm in the process of wearing out the handcart/shoulder-to-the-wheel analogy; I'll just point out that too often those packing the handcart are different folks than those pulling it and lending a shoulder.

[Eddie]

Maybe folks in the vaunted 208 are more "Mormon savy" than elsewhere but my experience is that if there's a way to weigh down the handcart with a bunch of extra, needless stuff then many Mormons will find a way to do just that. Then they will "rally the troops" with the shout "put your shoulder to the wheel" or for the Shakespeare aficionados, "once more into the breach , dear friends, once more". When someone says, "Take the damn piano out of the handcart", they are scolded with not sustaining their leaders or not magnifying their callings. And I'm not even on the WF.

I think what some here are saying is that before I put my shoulder to the wheel once more, I'd like to take some of the needless wieght out of the handcart and question the handcart packing list in the CHOI that far too many consider sacred. Also, why I'm in the process of wearing out the handcart/shoulder-to-the-wheel analogy; I'll just point out that too often those packing the handcart are different folks than those pulling it and lending a shoulder.

I may be wrong, but I like to think that the folks who put together the CHOI would agree with most of what you are saying as far as packing the handcart. Sometimes I think that they intend the packing list to say "cooking utensils", but the person reading the packing list to us reads "cooking utensils, and implies that if there is to be cooking, we better bring a stove!

It is quite a mixed message that we get when someone like President Hinkley says our responsibility is to our family and job before our church calling, and then we get questioned by local leaders about why we aren't taking time off work to volunteer at the church cannery or using all of our vacation time to go to scout/girls camp.