LDS Garments: Why I Want Out of This Club

[UtahDan]

I read about the following a while back and thought it was kind of interesting:

Gammadia on Early Jewish and Christian Garments

What is the significance of the "L" shaped marking, if you know? My first thought was, oh, sort of like modern garments. But my understanding is that the symbols we use now are borrowed from the Masons and have their origins in the middle ages, as opposed to Palestine much early. That is not to say they cannot be important symbols for teaching and conveying meaning. Just asking whether there is any connection implied there beyond the idea that people used symbolically marked or constructed clothing.

Just as one example, Jews have been using prayer shawls or tzittzit since well before the time of Christ as commanded in numbers 15 to help them remember the "commands of the Lord." Jesus probably wore one, but that practice has not been part of restoration.

[falafel]

Go to about the 53 minute mark on podcast #3 of the Daymon Smith podcast. I laughed when he mentioned this.

http://mormonstories.org/?p=980

No argument from the host either. That settles it. I'm throwing some symbols onto my hanes t-shirts.

[Uncle Ted]

What is the significance of the "L" shaped marking, if you know? My first thought was, oh, sort of like modern garments. But my understanding is that the symbols we use now are borrowed from the Masons and have their origins in the middle ages, as opposed to Palestine much early. That is not to say they cannot be important symbols for teaching and conveying meaning. Just asking whether there is any connection implied there beyond the idea that people used symbolically marked or constructed clothing.

*shrug*

If the source symbols we use now are the Masons of the middle ages then maybe the significance of the "L" on these ancient garments is maybe the same as someone holding their fingers in a "L" shape on their forehead.

Like I said, I found it kind of interesting.

[Pheidippides]

Wow, this thread is all sorts of awesome! FTR, ladies, SHW is on board with you and would happily sign a letter to SLC, I warrant.

People who state that you should jog with garments aren't being respectful of the family jewels. In fact exercising with G's can end up being a horrible experience as they really aren't designed for it.

agreed, our Stake Pres tried saying that in a ward leadership meeting once, when it is painfully obvious that he has never tried exercising with g's before.

Yeah, this is my experience too. No way I exercise with Gs on ever. I run shirtless in the summer - far too hot not to, frankly - and my running shorts are short.

Have any of these urban legends regarding garments protecting people from burns, etc. ever been substantiated? Shouldn't we go back to ankle and wrist-length garments if they are supposed to protect our skin, or just start wearing mithril armor under our clothes?

A former bishop had an experience involving a chainsaw.

Didn't the Marriott guy claim it on 60 minutes?

Yes, yes he did. <cringe>

Snort.

Aren't Nephi and Samuel always depicted wearing sleeveless clothes?

And didn't Moroni show up to Joseph Smith wearing only a white robe, so that Joseph could "see into his breast"?

I'm way less righteous than any of these people, so by following their examples, I should be better off, right?

Calling Rambam!

That aside, I expect we will see tank-top garment tops or "wife beater" garment tops within a generation. Such an adjustment doesn't seem problematic religiously and it seems inevitable given the direction garment size and shape have gone.

The missus and I agree, and we are waiting for the day. SHW believes a camisole-like top would be appropriate.

I am late on responding, but historians say that it started after the martyrdom at Carthage. Joseph and Hyrum (and a few others) had removed their garments due to the heat, but John Taylor had not. After Taylor's seemingly miraculous survival, many of the saints attributed it to the fact that he didn't remove his garments.

Interesting - do you have any references to the source material at all? The fact that JS and HS removed them due to the heat would shock a bunch of people I know.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Interesting - do you have any references to the source material at all? The fact that JS and HS removed them due to the heat would shock a bunch of people I know.

Here you go:

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Mysteries-Godliness-History-Mormon-Worship/dp/1560851767/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1274459483&sr=1-1"]Amazon.com: The Mysteries of Godliness: A History of Mormon Temple Worship (9781560851769): David John Buerger: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51XK2YBM7TL.@@AMEPARAM@@51XK2YBM7TL[/ame]

I was going to include that link but forgot. Thanks.

I wrote a review back on CG:

http://cougarguard.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13818

Looks like the protection legend may have originated with Willard Richards, not John Taylor.

Fascinating book.

[LA Ute]

The fact that JS and HS removed them due to the heat would shock a bunch of people I know.

Having been in Nauvoo and Carthage in late June, and considering the "long-john" style of garments worn in those days, that decision doesn't shock me at all. I'm a little more shocked at the report that John Taylor kept his on.

By the way, I love wearing garments and love the covenants of which they remind me. I still don't wear them when I work out.

[Pheidippides]

Having been in Nauvoo and Carthage in late June, and considering the "long-john" style of garments worn in those days, that decision doesn't shock me at all. I'm a little more shocked at the report that John Taylor kept his on.

By the way, I love wearing garments and love the covenants of which they remind me. I still don't wear them when I work out.

I wouldn't say I love it, but I don't really mind either. I went through the temple for the first time at a period in my life where I wore boxers and layered t-shirts. So the only real difference was that the boxers didn't ride up as much, which was cool. As to the covenants themselves, I'm not entirely sure I know what they mean or what they are, so there's an element of faith there to be sure.

I literally do not know anybody who wears them when they work out. And I cannot begin to imagine the amount of nipple-chafing that would result if I wore them on runs (not to mention the decrease in speed I'd have as a result of the increase in heat).

[LA Ute]

I wouldn't say I love it, but I don't really mind either. I went through the temple for the first time at a period in my life where I wore boxers and layered t-shirts. So the only real difference was that the boxers didn't ride up as much, which was cool. As to the covenants themselves, I'm not entirely sure I know what they mean or what they are, so there's an element of faith there to be sure.

I literally do not know anybody who wears them when they work out. And I cannot begin to imagine the amount of nipple-chafing that would result if I wore them on runs (not to mention the decrease in speed I'd have as a result of the increase in heat).

Further by the way, I feel compelled to say* that I have never known anyone who works out in garments or heard anyone suggest that garments be worn during sex or bathing or any similar weird suggestions. People who believe so are extreme outliers.


*I thought about saying "I would indeed be ungrateful if I did not stand on my feet today and . . . ." but that seemed disrespecteful.

[Pheidippides]

Further by the way, I feel compelled to say* that I have never known anyone who works out in garments or heard anyone suggest that garments be worn during sex or bathing or any similar weird suggestions. People who believe so are extreme outliers.


*I thought about saying "I would indeed be ungrateful if I did not stand on my feet today and . . . ." but that seemed disrespecteful.

Me either - although I should definitely caveat this by saying that I don't make it a habit to inquire as to the sexual practices of my friends and neighbors. There are people that I suspect believe the garment/sex/bathing/exercise stuff, but I have no inclination to ask.

I'm pretty good about it, I think. I don't have any qualms answering the question, at any rate.

[Mrs. Funk]

Further by the way, I feel compelled to say* that I have never known anyone who works out in garments or heard anyone suggest that garments be worn during sex or bathing or any similar weird suggestions. People who believe so are extreme outliers.


*I thought about saying "I would indeed be ungrateful if I did not stand on my feet today and . . . ." but that seemed disrespecteful.

I think if wearing of garments is really an edict from God, then in this (as in all things), God wants us to exercise good sense. If it seems silly or ridiculous to wear garments during a particular activity, I'm almost certain God expects us to use our best judgment and to not be commanded in all things.

That said, my good sense thinks we could do better in crafting garments for women and it matters very little to Heavenly Father the current design of the garment or else it wouldn't have changed to drastically over the years.

[Rosebud]

Further by the way, I feel compelled to say* that I have never known anyone who works out in garments or heard anyone suggest that garments be worn during sex or bathing or any similar weird suggestions. People who believe so are extreme outliers.


*I thought about saying "I would indeed be ungrateful if I did not stand on my feet today and . . . ." but that seemed disrespecteful.

Maybe, but women are definitely told to wear them beneath the bra. It just doesn't work. Well.... it might work if weighed a bit more. I'm not sure. This seems like the same sort of practical concern as some of you have about the family jewels while running.

[Mrs. Funk]

Maybe, but women are definitely told to wear them beneath the bra. It just doesn't work. Well.... it might work if weighed a bit more. I'm not sure. This seems like the same sort of practical concern as some of you have about the family jewels while running.

Based on a discussion thread recently at FMH, I'm not so sure that everybody is told to wear garments under their bras. Whatever ends up being a person's prevailing belief on this topic honestly seems to depend on whoever was the temple matron the day the individual received her endowment. Some people in the FMH discussion were told to definitely wear it under and others weren't told anything at all.

For something that reflect every day life as much as garment-wearing, you'd think there's be more uniformity in this regard.

[LA Ute]

Maybe, but women are definitely told to wear them beneath the bra. It just doesn't work. Well.... it might work if weighed a bit more. I'm not sure. This seems like the same sort of practical concern as some of you have about the family jewels while running.

I understand that to be true as well. My otherwise very orthodox but also very practical mother refused to do it. (Sorry, Mom.)

I think if wearing of garments is really an edict from God, then in this (as in all things), God wants us to exercise good sense. If it seems silly or ridiculous to wear garments during a particular activity, I'm almost certain God expects us to use our best judgment and to not be commanded in all things.

That said, my good sense thinks we could do better in crafting garments for women and it matters very little to Heavenly Father the current design of the garment or else it wouldn't have changed to drastically over the years.

Well said. Moreover, you and Mrs. LA Ute are kindred spirits.

[falafel]

Based on a discussion thread recently at FMH, I'm not so sure that everybody is told to wear garments under their bras. Whatever ends up being a person's prevailing belief on this topic honestly seems to depend on whoever was the temple matron the day the individual received her endowment. Some people in the FMH discussion were told to definitely wear it under and others weren't told anything at all.

For something that reflect every day life as much as garment-wearing, you'd think there's be more uniformity in this regard.

This sounds similar to the instruction that garments should never touch the floor. Some (like me) have been told this by parents, others by temple workers, and others have never heard that at all.

[Gidget]

This is an interesting metaphor for almost any issue a woman might have in the church. This is the reason I keep bumping that patriarchy thread of mine. As I have begun to see the world through the eyes of my daughter, I have felt frustration over how little input or recourse women have in many situations.

Agreed. It is really hard for me. It doesn't make me lose my testimony because it isn't a Gospel issue, it is a Church issue. I love the Gospel, but sometimes I feel squashed by the Church as an organization. Anyway, yeah, comment box would be cool. Hopefully by the time your and my girls get bigger they will have some kind of system for such concerns.