LDS Garments: Why I Want Out of This Club

[Moliere]

I think it was a pic outside Deseret Book with lots of cars and people that said something like, either Deseret Book is having a black Friday sale or the new garments have arrived.

Yeah, that's accurate. Apparently there were Black Fridayish lines outside the Deseret Book stores in Utah with women wanting to get the new sleeveless garments. Pretty funny but also kind of cool, tbh.

Now there's an orthodox contingent on X that is blasting the women for going to such great lengths to buy sleeveless garments when it's cold outside, which is also funny. We are a peculiar people with these weird tests of orthodoxy. I mean, I think it's cool the women are so willing to wear garments and keep their covenants that they are braving the freezing cold temperatures. It's almost just like the Willie and Martin hardcart companies.

[Bo Diddley]

Yeah, that's accurate. Apparently there were Black Fridayish lines outside the Deseret Book stores in Utah with women wanting to get the new sleeveless garments. Pretty funny but also kind of cool, tbh.

Now there's an orthodox contingent on X that is blasting the women for going to such great lengths to buy sleeveless garments when it's cold outside, which is also funny. We are a peculiar people with these weird tests of orthodoxy. I mean, I think it's cool the women are so willing to wear garments and keep their covenants that they are braving the freezing cold temperatures. It's almost just like the Willie and Martin hardcart companies.

[falafel]

Yeah, that's accurate. Apparently there were Black Fridayish lines outside the Deseret Book stores in Utah with women wanting to get the new sleeveless garments. Pretty funny but also kind of cool, tbh.

Now there's an orthodox contingent on X that is blasting the women for going to such great lengths to buy sleeveless garments when it's cold outside, which is also funny. We are a peculiar people with these weird tests of orthodoxy. I mean, I think it's cool the women are so willing to wear garments and keep their covenants that they are braving the freezing cold temperatures. It's almost just like the Willie and Martin hardcart companies.

[wally]

This is a slippery slope. cut off the sleeves..... next thing you know the people will be asking for thong bikini garms.

[chrisrenrut]

This is a slippery slope. cut off the sleeves..... next thing you know the people will be asking for thong bikini garms.

They did also introduce a half and full garment slip, so women can wear whatever undies they want underneath.

[swampfrog]

Which is relatively new change, as is the identification of the Person there, and it strikes me as being at odds with the gospel as I understand it. You're telling me that the Savior, who suffered everything, is relegated to a passive symbol in the final reckoning? Elohim is represented in a literal way, but Christ himself isn't waiting there?

"The self-assigned gatekeeper is Jesus Christ, who awaits us out of a deep divine desire to welcome us as much as to certify us; hence, ‘He employeth no servant there.’ (2 Nephi 9:41) If we acknowledge Him now, He will lovingly acknowledge and gladly admit us then!” -Neil A. Maxwell.

In my view, the Lord instructs. The Lord welcomes. The Lord actively brings us into His presence and the presence of the Father after we have done all that He's asked us to do. The veil, the last barrier standing between us and the Lord, is removed for the final time and we leave it behind as we enter the literal presence of Christ and the Father, to go no more out.

It makes no sense to me to use the veil as a symbol of the Lord. Maybe that's a me issue that will take some time to work out. And I don't know why, exactly, it sticks in my craw and doesn't feel correct at this time. It just doesn't. It struck me as odd the first time I heard it in a session, and didn't feel any more true when it was soft-launched in general conference and then rolled out in the recommend interview. (If I was cynical, I'd suggest there will be a number of talks in October session proclaiming that this was true all along).

I’m with you. But I’ve frequently been guilty of over-thinking and analyzing symbols, metaphors, analogies, etc. But at least people keep telling me I’d be fun at parties, though I’m rarely invited.

Apologies for resurrecting this bit of the thread, but I had some things made clearer symbolically. At least in my mind they fell into place.

I had Christ on the wrong side of the veil. The Celestial Room, (or the Holy of Holies) represents a different dominion, a different jurisdiction. If we were to be brought to that judgment bar right now, we would be found guilty.

This life is a probationary state. When we leave the Garden of Eden (in the temple drama), we are given a garment. The garment represents a covering, it's a temporary protection against The Accuser bringing the case immediately for judgment. That allows us to come into the Holy Place or Sanctuary (not the Celestial Room or Holy of Holies) temporarily free from accusation. The evidence of our guilt is covered. We enter into a covenantal relationship with Christ. We are not worthy to be in the Holy Place, but our covering grants us access. We are recognized by that environment as having Christ's protection, it could be understood as a temporary proxy access token, so the environment safety protocols do not act on us. It also forces The Accuser to be restrained by Christ's authority. We must have an escort to enter that space, escorting is not just an assignment to help one get accustomed and be trained in the protocols of the new jurisdiction, but also one who vouches for the applicant. It has a symbolic role. All boundary crossings require escorted access, where the escort is willing to vouch for (recommend) the good intent of the applicant. The temple recommend process is an authorization ritual. The priesthood leader who has standing (keys--which are received by Christ's delegation) in the Holy Place authorizes the applicant. An escort is then delegated by that priesthood authority to accompany the applicant.

The initiatory process is exactly that boundary crossing. The interface between the covering and your own skin (which is where the evidence of guilt resides) must be prepared to receive Christ's covering. Washing and annointing is how the skin is prepared, and then the garment is received. That allows the initiate to enter into the Holy Place where the path of Christian discipleship begins. The initiate is authenticated, but can't do anything, no authority. Over time, different levels of authority (priesthood) are granted and are marked by clothing, signs, and tokens. There is a visible outer marker (clothing), there is knowledge which must be internalized (names), and there are demonstrations of proving how to act (tokens). There used to be an explicit symbol representing the acceptance of the responsibility for acting inappropriately in sacred space, but that symbol was corrupted by literalism and lost its symbolic value (penalties). Death is symbolic of being removed from the Holy Place and returned back to pre-initiatory status. Expelled and covering is vacated. The life of the disciple is ended.

When we have traversed the covenantal straight and narrow path, we approach the altar (which is also a throne) and engage in supplication (prayer circle) for admittance into the Holy of Holies (Celestial Room). Christ Himself offers the prayer (the temple worker symbolizes Christ). It's the great intercessory prayer. The disciple is presented at the veil by Christ as The Advocate and the only being with standing to knock on the door (the veil, or boundary between domains). Christ vouches for the disciple, He agrees to have the evidence of guilt that is in the disciple reversed by his Atoning Sacrifice and tells The Father so. The last authorization can only be given at the veil (domain boundary interface). I believe this is where Christ's blood neutralizes our guilt and corruption can finally put on incorruption (resurrection). After all the handshaking protocols are verified, and the last authorization granted, the veil is closed, and then Christ again knocks and tells the father this disciple is clean through me and I have standing to grant him access through the authority granted me by reason of my infinite sacrifice which is recognized in your domain. The Father allows the disciple to enter.