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  • #31
    Originally posted by Eddie Jones View Post
    Keep in mind that only (or most of the time for those who hate absolutes) full-tithe payers ever show up to declare anyway so the kids get to see their parents declare a full tithe.

    Here's an interesting question. Where in the handbook does it say the bishop has to hang a signup sheet on his door and sit around every Sunday while meeting with the families the way it is currently done? It doesn't. The Bishop has to meet with the families and the families have to declare their tithing status but it can be done different ways. Our traditions are too ingrained in our beings to think of different ways to do tithing settlement. We revert back to the way it was done for the past decade.
    I agree that there are ancillary benefits to tithing. I was pointing out that T Sett is unique in that it is the only "worthiness" issue related to temple recommends that we declare in a group setting.

    I view TR questions to fall into two categories: preparedness and worthiness. Preparedness would be stuff like believing in God, in the Savior, in the Prophet, affiliating with contrary groups, etc. Worthiness questions would be things like chastity, WoW, tithing, family abuse, etc.

    Preparedness questions are often declared in public settings...testimony meeting, for example.

    But only in tithing settlement are we asked to declare our worthiness in a group setting. It is fairly bizarre and my guess is that it is simple a holdover practice.

    All of the touchy feely Bishops counsel stuff can be accomplished in an annual meeting, but without the official inquiry into the law of tithing, I would think. That should be a personal matter, not a group matter.
    Fitter. Happier. More Productive.
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    • #32
      Originally posted by TripletDaddy View Post
      I agree that there are ancillary benefits to tithing. I was pointing out that T Sett is unique in that it is the only "worthiness" issue related to temple recommends that we declare in a group setting.

      I view TR questions to fall into two categories: preparedness and worthiness. Preparedness would be stuff like believing in God, in the Savior, in the Prophet, affiliating with contrary groups, etc. Worthiness questions would be things like chastity, WoW, tithing, family abuse, etc.

      Preparedness questions are often declared in public settings...testimony meeting, for example.

      But only in tithing settlement are we asked to declare our worthiness in a group setting. It is fairly bizarre and my guess is that it is simple a holdover practice.

      All of the touchy feely Bishops counsel stuff can be accomplished in an annual meeting, but without the official inquiry into the law of tithing, I would think. That should be a personal matter, not a group matter.
      Maybe someone knows the history of tithing settlement and can enlighten us. It is a good point that we don't have a chastity settlement or a WoW settlement. However the difference is tithing is something that actually requires us to relinquish "goods" to the church so in that effect it is different.

      Also, (not to go all Viking on you but) what percentage of people would not pay a full-tithe if they didn't have to sit with the bishop each year and declare? I think there would be some that wouldn't pay or wouldn't pay as much.
      "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Eddie Jones View Post
        Also, (not to go all Viking on you but) what percentage of people would not pay a full-tithe if they didn't have to sit with the bishop each year and declare?
        I think the difference in revenue would be astronomical without tithing settlement.
        That which may be asserted without evidence may be dismissed without evidence. -C. Hitchens

        http://twitter.com/SoonerCoug

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        • #34
          Originally posted by SoonerCoug View Post
          I think the difference in revenue would be astronomical without tithing settlement.
          It's probably useless to discuss hypotheticals on this since no one really knows but I don't think it would be that big although it would have an impact.

          Consider that the correlation between full tithe payers and recommend holders is pretty high and then consider that tithing is part of the temple recommend questions. There are always some people who will lie in their TR interview and say they are full-tithe payers but I think it would be a small percentage.
          "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

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          • #35
            Originally posted by TripletDaddy View Post
            you are free to make an appointment with the Bishop at any time during the year. You can invite your entire family. You can also invite the Bishop to your home at any time during the year.
            True, but almost no one would do that. Even so, you are right, seeing the bishop once a year is an ancillary benefit of TS, not the main reason we do it, I suspect.

            Settling tithing, which is a matter of temple recommend worthiness, should not be done in a group setting. It is inappropriate and will likely eventually be changed.
            Good point. In our ward our bishops have held TS separately with our kids when they reach the age of 8. (It lasts about 2 minutes each.) I think that's just a style thing that every bishop does differently. It would indeed be weird to sit there with your 17 year-old and talk about tithepayer status.

            It is a bizarre practice that definitely has some ancillary benefits, but at its core is anachronistic and inappropriate. They should just change the name to year-end ecclesiastical stewardship meeting and skip the tithing part of it altogether. That would make more sense to me.
            Maybe that'll happen someday. You wouldn't remember but ward budget and building fund assessments used to be part of the annual TS sit-down too. That was another time-honored tradition that went "poof" rather abruptly.

            In the meantime, I like tithing settlement, but I can see why others aren't thrilled with it.
            “There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
            ― W.H. Auden

            "God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
            -- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons

            "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
            --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

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            • #36
              I spent the second and third hour printing out everyone's tithing statements. We put a sign up sheet on the clerks door for just next week. After weeks of asking where the sign up was, we had 5 people sign up...and I was one of them. People are funny.

              I love tithing settlement because it takes me one step closer to my tax return.
              "They're good. They've always been good" - David Shaw.

              Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

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              • #37
                Why Tithing Settlement?
                Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

                For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

                Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by myboynoah View Post
                  Why Tithing Settlement?
                  Having a temple recommend serves the same purpose. I can see tithing settlement for people without them. The noting tithe status on the records of the Church seems superfluous.
                  "Wuap's "problem" is that he is smart & principled & committed to a moral course of action. His actions are supposed to reflect his ethical code.
                  The rest of us rarely bother to think about our actions." --Solon

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by wuapinmon View Post
                    Having a temple recommend serves the same purpose. I can see tithing settlement for people without them. The noting tithe status on the records of the Church seems superfluous.
                    I'd agree with this if they handed you your tithing statement during a TR interview and asked if there was anything amiss.
                    "Nobody listens to Turtle."
                    -Turtle
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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Surfah View Post
                      I'd agree with this if they handed you your tithing statement during a TR interview and asked if there was anything amiss.
                      It would appear, to me, that you've proposed an excellent idea, Brother Surfah.
                      "Wuap's "problem" is that he is smart & principled & committed to a moral course of action. His actions are supposed to reflect his ethical code.
                      The rest of us rarely bother to think about our actions." --Solon

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by DrumNFeather View Post
                        I love tithing settlement because it takes me one step closer to my tax return.
                        So you like tithing settlement because it reminds you that pretty soon you can fill out a form that tells you how much money you were allowed to pay the federal government?
                        "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Art Vandelay View Post
                          Today and next Saturday I am doing tithing settlement fro 8:00-6:00. I just had two families no show on me. Now I will have to see them sometime later this month. Enough complaining, just try and remember to show up at the appointed time for your bishop's sake.
                          Done.. Did it the first day.. Second Appointment... Ahh. So nice to have that out of the way...

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by dabrockster View Post
                            Done.. Did it the first day.. Second Appointment... Ahh. So nice to have that out of the way...
                            I agree, except I didn't meet with the Bishop to get it out of the way.
                            Fitter. Happier. More Productive.
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                            • #44
                              As Eddie said above, most Bishops I have spoken with, myself included, enjoy TS. There is almost a 100% inverse relationship with who I see this time of year versus who I spend time with the rest of the year. When it is a family I always make a point to tell the children what a good example there parents are being. I share a scripture, give everyone some candy and generally am done in 7-8 minutes. I realize this may be a sacrifice small inconvenience for some, but overall I hope is a positive experience, I know it is for me.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Art Vandelay View Post
                                As Eddie said above, most Bishops I have spoken with, myself included, enjoy TS. There is almost a 100% inverse relationship with who I see this time of year versus who I spend time with the rest of the year. When it is a family I always make a point to tell the children what a good example there parents are being. I share a scripture, give everyone some candy and generally am done in 7-8 minutes. I realize this may be a sacrifice small inconvenience for some, but overall I hope is a positive experience, I know it is for me.
                                Aren't bishops supposed to spend over half their time with the youth? Surely you don't mean that working with the you is 100% inverse of enjoyable.
                                "Wuap's "problem" is that he is smart & principled & committed to a moral course of action. His actions are supposed to reflect his ethical code.
                                The rest of us rarely bother to think about our actions." --Solon

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