How to draw a horse...

[RobinFinderson]

What do you have against cosmetic surgery? Seriously.

I have no problem with cosmetic surgery. I am a strong supporter of the liberty of folks to do whatever they like with their bodies, including cutting them up and stitching them back together in new and interesting ways.

[Eddie]

Call me crazy, but I don't think wealthy fashion icons and Hollywood celebs are particularly susceptible to harm...

Not speaking specifically of SJP, I think some of these folks are more susceptible to harm.

They make their living off of their looks.

Compare the number of "wealthy fashion icons and Hollywood celebs" that have made a huge plastic surgery blunder to the number of regular shlubs like the rest of us who have done the same.

Most of us aren't looking for perfection like they do. How much of this is due in part to every critic pointing out the imperfections rather than identifying the strengths?

In re-reading, this post probably comes across stronger than intended and it may even appear that I feel strongly about it. I actually don't. I just think there is plenty of evidence to the contrary of your assertion that these folks aren't harmed by discussions of their looks. I think many of them are especially susceptible and are pretty emotionally weak about their looks.

[marsupial]

Had ilPad ridiculed the physical appearance of a wealthy Hollywood celebrity with Down's Syndrome, I'd bet you would take my side on the issue. It isn't about 'women,' per se. The Bush/Monkey images are offensive for the same reason that the SJP/horse comparison is offensive. However I think that the SJP joke has a greater potential to cause broad social harm, so it rose to a level where I thought it was worth calling out. But I would also call out a post that ridiculed little people, or people with uni-brows, or the obese, regardless of sex.

And I am not a 'selective, patronizing feminist.' My feminist ideals are consistent, and I would bet, as informed and considered as the feminist ideals of any other CUFfer who claims to be a feminist. We could have a real dick-measuring contest on this point, and I would win.

To me the Bush/chimp pictures are less offensive because I see it more of a comparison of his facial expressions. The statement the picture is making is not look at George W. Bush, he is so ugly he looks like a chimp, but instead more of a commentary on his presidency. What a chimp. Or even a chimp could do what he did.

I agree with you Robin that the horse drawing is harmful... Not just to SJP but to women in general. When I hear about other women getting mocked for their bodies or faces, my mind immediately goes to, "gosh, if she's so ugly, what does that make me?"

Also, I have a long face too, so I sympathesize with SJP.

[Katy Lied]

I agree with you Robin that the horse drawing is harmful... Not just to SJP but to women in general. When I hear about other women getting mocked for their bodies or faces, my mind immediately goes to, "gosh, if she's so ugly, what does that make me?"

I think this too.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I think this too.

What a curious thing.

Just for future reference, where exactly is the boundary when rejecting Hollywood standards for beauty? Suppose someone were to say "I just don't find <insert movie star name> attractive." Certainly comparison to a horse is crude, but you seem to be saying that the primary underlying problem is that when someone finds a particular celebrity unattractive, it damages the self-esteem of women everywhere.

For the record, I find SJP attractive.

[lambdacoug]

I agree with you Robin that the horse drawing is harmful... Not just to SJP but to women in general. When I hear about other women getting mocked for their bodies or faces, my mind immediately goes to, "gosh, if she's so ugly, what does that make me?"

My mind immediately goes to "gosh, if she's so ugly, what does SJP's looks have to do with anything?"

I find SJP attractive and like a fine wine she's aged extremely well.

[creekster]

To me the Bush/chimp pictures are less offensive because I see it more of a comparison of his facial expressions. The statement the picture is making is not look at George W. Bush, he is so ugly he looks like a chimp, but instead more of a commentary on his presidency. What a chimp. Or even a chimp could do what he did.

I agree with you Robin that the horse drawing is harmful... Not just to SJP but to women in general. When I hear about other women getting mocked for their bodies or faces, my mind immediately goes to, "gosh, if she's so ugly, what does that make me?"

Also, I have a long face too, so I sympathesize with SJP.

You really think the Bush comparison was based on his presidency and not because he has eyes and a mouth like a chimp? Why do you think they used a chimp instead of a gibbon or an orangutan or a mountain gorilla in those shots?

I will tell you why: BECAUSE HE LOOKS LIKE A CHIMP!

I remember many years ago on SNL weekend update they had a one line gag. Chevy Chase flashes a photo of Rick Ocasek, lead singer for the cars on the screen and asks "Gee Rick, why the long face? Was that hurtful? Or does it have to involve a woman? I am just looking for the line. Just like cigars are sometimes symbols and sometimes only rolled leaves of tobacco, so some jokes are hurtful and others just jokes.

[marsupial]

What a curious thing.

Just for future reference, where exactly is the boundary when rejecting Hollywood standards for beauty? Suppose someone were to say "I just don't find <insert movie star name> attractive." Certainly comparison to a horse is crude, but you seem to be saying that the primary underlying problem is that when someone finds a particular celebrity unattractive, it damages the self-esteem of women everywhere.

For the record, I find SJP attractive.

I think there is a big difference between, she's not my type, I don't find her attractive, etc., and pure mockery of looks/body.

What I really have a problem with is the mocking of people who don't make a living looking beautiful... For example, in one of the recent threads someone made a comment about finding out that some friend's wife has thong underwear and how he thought she had no business wearing them because of her body type. I found the comment to be arrogant, rude and insensitive. Who is he to say what this woman should be wearing for her husband?

I can't remember the thread, context or who posted it. It's just the first example that came to my mind. I will say that things in that regard were really bad on CG and that I don't think those kinds of comments get posted as often here.

[marsupial]

You really think the Bush comparison was based on his presidency and not because he has eyes and a mouth like a chimp? Why do you think they used a chimp instead of a gibbon or an orangutan or a mountain gorilla in those shots?

I will tell you why: BECAUSE HE LOOKS LIKE A CHIMP!

I remember many years ago on SNL weekend update they had a one line gag. Chevy Chase flashes a photo of Rick Ocasek, lead singer for the cars on the screen and asks "Gee Rick, why the long face? Was that hurtful? Or does it have to involve a woman? I am just looking for the line. Just like cigars are sometimes symbols and sometimes only rolled leaves of tobacco, so some jokes are hurtful and others just jokes.

Huh. I don't think he looks like a chimp. Really, if you capture still images of anyone speaking with any sort of animation or emotion you get some funny faces. I think you could do a similar side-by-side comparison with any other person who spends a lot of time in front of a mic.

[creekster]

Huh. I don't think he looks like a chimp. Really, if you capture still images of anyone speaking with any sort of animation or emotion you get some funny faces. I think you could do a similar side-by-side comparison with any other person who spends a lot of time in front of a mic.

Seriously? If you say so...

What about people making fun of the size of Julia Roberts mouth? Fair game given that her mouth is freakin ginormous? or is it hurtful?

[TripletDaddy]

Julia Roberts has clown mouth. I don't care if that is hurtful to say since nobody cares about the sleepless nights I have endured, terrified under my covers that Julia Roberts, Cameron Diaz, and sometimes Anne Hathaway were coming to kill me.

[marsupial]

Seriously? If you say so...

What about people making fun of the size of Julia Roberts mouth? Fair game given that her mouth is freakin ginormous? or is it hurtful?

Man up and post a picture of yourself. We'll all have fun mocking your worst features.

[creekster]

Man up and post a picture of yourself. We'll all have fun mocking your worst features.

But she makes a living by being beautiful! You implied that was different. SJP also makes a living doing that. I certainly don't make my living by trying to be beautiful, I tell you what. But this isn't about me, it's about making fun of celebrities who themselves make a living based on their appearance and depend on public discourse and popularity for their income. I am just trying to understand what your point is here.

So how about it? What about Julia Roberts?

[Jeff Lebowski]

I think there is a big difference between, she's not my type, I don't find her attractive, etc., and pure mockery of looks/body.

Pure mockery? So whether or not your self-esteem is damaged upon learning that someone finds SJP unattractive boils down to an issue of tone?

What I really have a problem with is the mocking of people who don't make a living looking beautiful... For example, in one of the recent threads someone made a comment about finding out that some friend's wife has thong underwear and how he thought she had no business wearing them because of her body type. I found the comment to be arrogant, rude and insensitive. Who is he to say what this woman should be wearing for her husband?

I can't remember the thread, context or who posted it. It's just the first example that came to my mind. I will say that things in that regard were really bad on CG and that I don't think those kinds of comments get posted as often here.

Sure. I can agree on that.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Man up and post a picture of yourself. We'll all have fun mocking your worst features.

Don't do it, creek! I posted my awesome powder blue suit photo and everyone started calling me Adam Morrison.