Breaking Bad

[jay santos]

You said:



First of all, one of the most remarkable things about this show (Gilligan has noted this several times) is that no matter how evil and depraved Walt becomes, there are still some fans rooting for him.

Second, after all he has done up to this point, how could his morality depend on what he does with Skylar?

Because I like Skylar, and I would really like to preserve what they have right now. It may not be love, but it's a cooperation based on some sort of common goal.

[Pheidippides]

Walt is a bad guy. But he's so likable. We cheer for different characters, teams, etc, for a variety of reasons, not just who is the most moral.

Yes, because the New York Yankees poison kids and order prison hits.

[The_Douger]

I don't know how anyone can root for Walt at this point. His humanity went down the drain a long time ago.

I'm not really rooting for anyone, I think one point of the series is going to be that being involved in the drug culture turns out bad for almost everyone.

[ERCougar]

You said:



First of all, one of the most remarkable things about this show (Gilligan has noted this several times) is that no matter how evil and depraved Walt becomes, there are still some fans rooting for him.

Second, after all he has done up to this point, how could his morality depend on what he does with Skylar?

Gilligan's statements about Walt are just to stir the pot. He keeps giving us reasons to root for Walt. If he wanted to portray him as one-dimensional evil, he wouldn't have had him object to "sending Hank to Belize", among a hundred other examples. I think it's remarkable that people keep taking Gilligan's "surprise" at face value.

You don't think Walt becomes worse if he kills Skylar?

[YOhio]

You don't think Walt becomes worse if he kills Skylar?

If Skylar doesn't want to be killed then Walt may lose Santos' support as it's a clear sign he's pursuing a different goal.

[The_Douger]

Gilligan's statements about Walt are just to stir the pot. He keeps giving us reasons to root for Walt. If he wanted to portray him as one-dimensional evil, he wouldn't have had him object to "sending Hank to Belize", among a hundred other examples. I think it's remarkable that people keep taking Gilligan's "surprise" at face value.

You don't think Walt becomes worse if he kills Skylar?

Ignoring the plan crash, Walt's been responsible for killing around 20 people so far in the show (off the top of my head). I'm not going to think much worse of him if he kills his wife.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Gilligan's statements about Walt are just to stir the pot. He keeps giving us reasons to root for Walt. If he wanted to portray him as one-dimensional evil, he wouldn't have had him object to "sending Hank to Belize", among a hundred other examples. I think it's remarkable that people keep taking Gilligan's "surprise" at face value.

Don't kid yourself. Walt is going to kill Hank and Marie.

Gilligan said that his intent is to continually punish viewers for rooting for Walt. That little Belize thing (and the other things you reference) was just to stir some false hope. Very clever writing.

You don't think Walt becomes worse if he kills Skylar?

After all of the things he has done thus far? Not really.

[PaloAltoCougar]

I need to go back and watch the Trip to Belize thing (a line destined to be TV's equivalent of "make them an offer they can't refuse"), to re-watch Walt's reaction to Saul's (still love this guy) suggestion. For Walt to feel/display incredulity and revulsion at any suggestion of wrongdoing is pretty funny, really.

[ERCougar]

Don't kid yourself. Walt is going to kill Hank and Marie.

Gilligan said that his intent is to continually punish viewers for rooting for Walt. That little Belize thing (and the other things you reference) was just to stir some false hope. Very clever writing.



After all of the things he has done thus far? Not really.

Well, punishing viewers for a natural and common redemptive impulse doesn't make writing particularly interesting to me; creating complex characters does. If he really claims that Walt is a one-dimensional embodiment of evil with no redemptive qualities--a caricature that just doesn't exist anywhere in reality--then I'd say that argues against his writing. Fortunately, Walt is not (to me, at least), so he remains interesting, and the writing remains good. Gilligan is stirring the pot.

And yes, I think that killing one's wife for self-preservation represents a significant moral step, particularly given that family has been part of his alleged motivation all along.

[MarkGrace]

Gilligan's statements about Walt are just to stir the pot. He keeps giving us reasons to root for Walt. If he wanted to portray him as one-dimensional evil, he wouldn't have had him object to "sending Hank to Belize", among a hundred other examples. I think it's remarkable that people keep taking Gilligan's "surprise" at face value.

Yeah, I've felt the same way the last couple of episodes. With the cancer back and the whole Skylar talk about her promising to keep the money if he turns himself in, it's hard not to feel at least a smidge of sympathy. In a weird way I still find a small part of myself pulling for Walt as well. But like Lebowski said, maybe it's just a setup.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Well, punishing viewers for a natural and common redemptive impulse doesn't make writing particularly interesting to me; creating complex characters does. If he really claims that Walt is a one-dimensional embodiment of evil with no redemptive qualities--a caricature that just doesn't exist anywhere in reality--then I'd say that argues against his writing. Fortunately, Walt is not (to me, at least), so he remains interesting, and the writing remains good. Gilligan is stirring the pot.

And yes, I think that killing one's wife for self-preservation represents a significant moral step, particularly given that family has been part of his alleged motivation all along.

Caricature? One-dimensional? Where did you get that? You and I have both referenced things Walt has done along the way to illustrate complexity. It has been a fascinating journey.

But after 20 murders, poisoning a kid, and putting his family in extreme danger, how can you possibly cheer for the guy or expect some kind of redemptive ending?

http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/s166/breaking-bad/news/a461319/bryan-cranston-on-breaking-bad-end-theres-no-redemption.html

"There's nothing good, there's not going to be redemption," Cranston said of his character - chemistry teacher-turned-meth cook Walter White.

"It's going downhill - it's ugly."

[fusnik]

Ignoring the plan crash, Walt's been responsible for killing around 20 people so far in the show (off the top of my head). I'm not going to think much worse of him if he kills his wife.

I don't see Walt killing his wife, no way. The dude has a level of humanity that would disappear if he killed her.

Even Michael Corleone didn't kill his wife after her abortion.

If he kills Skyler he might be the most evil character in TV history.

I envision a scene like this:

Sky and Lydia are in separate rooms, Walt is knocking on the door, the door opens, shot of both Lydia and Sky, Walt takes aim and shoots, both die, cliffhanger, we find out the next week away killed Lydia, Todd killed Sky.

[Flystripper]

Yeah, I've felt the same way the last couple of episodes. With the cancer back and the whole Skylar talk about her promising to keep the money if he turns himself in, it's hard not to feel at least a smidge of sympathy. In a weird way I still find a small part of myself pulling for Walt as well. But like Lebowski said, maybe it's just a setup.

Oh its a setup. Gilligan is screwing with us, but I like the emotional roller-coaster and the internal conflict that manifests when I watch the show. It is actually a big part of my enjoyment. I know I shouldn't like this guy but I still really like this guy. This internal conflict in most of the show's audience is exactly what Gilligan is trying to accomplish.

[Commando]

Yes, because the New York Yankees poison kids and order prison hits.

No, but Walter White is a fictional character written and conceived for our entertainment.

[SteelBlue]

EDIT: Also...I don't buy the "career ending" angle to Hank's dilemma. This is the biggest catch in their history and he gets fired because it's his brother in law? Gus was also under everyone's nose. Embarrasing? Maybe, although I'm not even buying that. Career-ending? No way. Which adds to my problem with Hank now. It's now about Hank. If he really cared about the damage Walt's done, he tells them what he suspects.

As soon as Hank had his epiphany on the hopper last season, the point was made by many that even if he has figured things out, it's going to make him look like an idiot at best and more likely an accomplice. Besides having his expensive spinal cord rehab paid for out of pocket by Walter, he personally took out at least 3 cartel members and stalked Gus, off the books, right up until his death, with the man who assasinated him and took over his business. I can certainly see Hank's point, and I do believe it'd be a career ender. It may be true that he'd tell them what he suspects if it were all about his revulsion at the damage done. But that's never been what this show is about. Just about every character who has gotten involved with Walter has had to make tough choices regarding their self-preservation and other than Jesse on occasion, I can't think of a single character who hasn't chosen self.