Blink, Blink, Blink, What?

[imanihonjin]

It causes retarded children. Which is presumably against society's best interest. Nevermind that it also repulses the majority of us and we want you off the island if you do it.

Uh, this chick married her daughter....how would that produce genetic defects in offspring? You are also using the "it's icky" argument and that doesn't fly in our world anymore.

Also, if we are going to worry about genetic defects and that is the argument for excluding these marriages from legal recognition then we should probably have some standard where hetero couples get tested to make sure their genes are compatible with being able to produce non-genetically defective children.

[falafel]

Uh, this chick married her daughter....how would that produce genetic defects in offspring? You are also using the "it's icky" argument and that doesn't fly in our world anymore.

Also, if we are going to worry about genetic defects and that is the argument for excluding these marriages from legal recognition then we should probably have some standard where hetero couples get tested to make sure their genes are compatible with being able to produce non-genetically defective children.

Just stop.

Even if, at some point waaaaaaaay down the line, society has progressed to the point where families are proud of their incestual marriages, that point is so far off that it does not make any sense discussing it now.

[imanihonjin]

Just stop.

Even if, at some point waaaaaaaay down the line, society has progressed to the point where families are proud of their incestual marriages, that point is so far off that it does not make any sense discussing it now.

So you are sticking with the "it's icky" argument. Gotcha.....do you have any legal basis as to why the "fundamental right" should be denied to these individuals? I am honestly asking. If you read Kennedy's opinion in Obergefell it would seem to suggest that we are missing the boat here.

No union is more profound than marriage, for it embodies the highest ideals of love, fidelity, devotion, sacrifice, and family. In forming a marital union, two people become something greater than once they were. As some of the petitioners in these cases demonstrate, marriage embodies a love that may endure even past death. It would misunderstand these men and women to say they disrespect the idea of marriage. Their plea is that they do respect it, respect it so deeply that they seek to find its fulfillment for themselves. Their hope is not to be condemned to live in loneliness, excluded from one of civilization’s oldest institutions. They ask for equal dignity in the eyes of the law. The Constitution grants them that right.

[falafel]

So you are sticking with the "it's icky" argument. Gotcha.....do you have any legal basis as to why the "fundamental right" should be denied to these individuals? I am honestly asking. If you read Kennedy's opinion in Obergefell it would seem to suggest that we are missing the boat here.

Oh boy. Even though many here are lawyers, we are not making legal arguments.

And besides, sometimes "icky" is the right argument. Bestiality, for example. Icky. NAMBLA. Icky (with a host of other problems). Necrophilia. Icky. You can't write off icky entirely just because one previously icky concept has transformed into an acceptable one.

[imanihonjin]

Oh boy. Even though many here are lawyers, we are not making legal arguments.

And besides, sometimes "icky" is the right argument. Bestiality, for example. Icky. NAMBLA. Icky (with a host of other problems). Necrophilia. Icky. You can't write off icky entirely just because one previously icky concept has transformed into an acceptable one.

All of your arguments for icky can be distinguished on important legal grounds.....consent. Not so with the case here. So no, icky doesn't win the day. That was what prevented gay marriage from being legal for all these years and at the end of the day SCOTUS determined that there were no valid legal arguments to deny this fundamental right to gay and lesbian couples. All of the arguments that apply to gay marriage, seem to apply to incestual relationships as well.

By the way, I am not supporting or condoning incest, rather I am simply asking for legal arguments that offer meaningful distinctions. It is an interesting discussion.

[falafel]

All of your arguments for icky can be distinguished on important legal grounds.....consent. Not so with the case here. So no, icky doesn't win the day. That was what prevented gay marriage from being legal for all these years and at the end of the day SCOTUS determined that there were no valid legal arguments to deny this fundamental right to gay and lesbian couples. All of the arguments that apply to gay marriage, seem to apply to incestual relationships as well.

By the way, I am not supporting or condoning incest, rather I am simply asking for legal arguments that offer meaningful distinctions. It is an interesting discussion.

I told you not to dismiss icky so simply!

Besides, I don't think you can build off of gay marriage to get to incestual marriage. Some of the key assumptions of that Kennedy quote from Obergefell are that (1) a significant portion of society is being excluded from the institution of marriage (2) based solely on an innate personal characteristic that they did not choose and cannot change.

In your incestual marriage scenario, you certainly do not have (1), and I'm not at all convinced that you have (2). I've never heard of a significant subset of people that were born attracted to their parent/child, and can only achieve happiness if they are allowed to marriage that parent/child.

[Pelado]

not exactly. Two gloves, no hands makes no genetic exchange.

I just started thinking about teaching about death and resurrection.

[Joe Public]

https://www.yahoo.com/style/utah-che...190453362.html

Last week, when a male student at Timpview High School in Provo, Utah, complained to a school counselor that the uniforms worn by cheerleaders on game day were causing him to have “impure” thoughts in class, the conversation could have ended there. But it didn’t.

This reminded me of moving out to Provo for school and, for the first time, being around a bunch of adult (college-aged) men who hadn't kissed a girl yet and were into kid's Disney movies like Aladdin and The Lion King. It was definitely different from where I grew up.

[Jeff Lebowski]

https://www.yahoo.com/style/utah-che...190453362.html



This reminded me of moving out to Provo for school and, for the first time, being around a bunch of adult (college-aged) men who hadn't kissed a girl yet and were into kid's Disney movies like Aladdin and The Lion King. It was definitely different from where I grew up.

We have been following this closely. We know the old cheer coach and a couple of the current cheerleaders. Was talking with the mother of a cheerleader yesterday to get the inside scoop. She thinks the media is blowing it way out of proportion. They are not even sure if a student actually complained. There was a rumor that it happened, but no hard evidence. The girls were indeed pissed at the suggestion and none of them will be required to cover up. School officials insist nothing happened. The sister of one of the cheerleaders is a blogger for Mormon Stories and took the story to John Dehlin and suddenly it is evidence of Provo/BYU rape culture. Oh boy.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

https://www.yahoo.com/style/utah-che...190453362.html



This reminded me of moving out to Provo for school and, for the first time, being around a bunch of adult (college-aged) men who hadn't kissed a girl yet and were into kid's Disney movies like Aladdin and The Lion King. It was definitely different from where I grew up.

They should all go buy the shirts at the Provo mall that mom and son were so offended by a few years ago.

[Commando]

They should all go buy the shirts at the Provo mall that mom and son were so offended by a few years ago.

I think that was the Orem mall... and I can't remember the t-shirt.

[cougjunkie]

I think that was the Orem mall... and I can't remember the t-shirt.

Provo town centre and she was offended by the Victoria secret models. Unless this was a separate case.

[beefytee]

Provo town centre and she was offended by the Victoria secret models. Unless this was a separate case.

I think they're talking about the case where the lady bought all the offensive shirts and then returned them later so they wouldn't be displayed and they wouldn't make any money from them.



I remember the VS issue too though.

Edit:

Here's the story: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/02/19...-them-all.html

[snowcat]

Spider bites Australian man on penis again

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-austra...alflow_twitter

Jordan, who preferred not to reveal his surname, said he was bitten on "pretty much the same spot" by the spider.
"I'm the most unlucky guy in the country at the moment," he told the BBC.
"I was sitting on the toilet doing my business and just felt the sting that I felt the first time.
"I was like 'I can't believe it's happened again.' I looked down and I've seen a few little legs come from around the rim."

[Commando]

I think they're talking about the case where the lady bought all the offensive shirts and then returned them later so they wouldn't be displayed and they wouldn't make any money from them.



I remember the VS issue too though.

Edit:

Here's the story: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/02/19...-them-all.html

That's the one! I still wish I could remember the t-shirt, though. I think it was hilariously non-obscene.