Sir and Ma'am

[Guest]

There's a line from "No Country for Old Men":

"But I think once you quit hearing "sir" and "ma'am," the rest is soon to foller."

I agree

It's funny, that's why I asked. I finished reading No Country today and was pondering the musing of Sheriff Ed Tom Bell.

[SuperGabers]

They also use the word "Miss" a lot in these here parts. I've never heard it used for such a variety of women. It doesn't matter the age, but many young children refer to me as "Miss SuperGabers"...

[Viking]

They also use the word "Miss" a lot in these here parts. I've never heard it used for such a variety of women. It doesn't matter the age, but many young children refer to me as "Miss SuperGabers"...

It is amazing to me how southern Virginia truly is, despite its proximity to yankeeland. It's more southern than texas, by a long shot. Wasn't VA the home of the confederacy for most of the civil war? Kind of bizarre that the two capitals were so close. back in alabama or in charleston seems more like a fit.

We'd never dress like this in TX but it fits right in down home in SC/AL/GA/VA. That said, I wear bow ties all the time...

[TripletDaddy]

For some reason, this antebellum diction evokes images of slavery and servitude. I grew up in SoCal and while you would definitely be in the right for approaching a stranger with a "excuse me, Sir..."......I don't want my kids saying "yes sir" and "yes ma'am" to me and my wife. No thanks.

for those that are annoyed that strangers don't call them sir and ma'am, stay in the South. or get a job that gives you more power. But don't assume that you are being disrespected. you may need to get over yourself just a tad.

[Viking]

For some reason, this antebellum diction evokes images of slavery and servitude. I grew up in SoCal and while you would definitely be in the right for approaching a stranger with a "excuse me, Sir..."......I don't want my kids saying "yes sir" and "yes ma'am" to me and my wife. No thanks.

for those that are annoyed that strangers don't call them sir and ma'am, stay in the South. or get a job that gives you more power. But don't assume that you are being disrespected. you may need to get over yourself just a tad.

My first wife was from california. She used to say: "like, o my god, i can't, like believe, like I married a, like, texan."

I will take the way we speak over your bankrupt ass state any day. You guys do have great fake boobs, though.

[TripletDaddy]

My first wife was from california. She used to say: "like, o my god, i can't, like believe, like I married a, like, texan."

I will take the way we speak over your bankrupt ass state any day. You guys do have great fake boobs, though.

If she is your ex-wife, she is smarter than the credit you are giving her.

[Viking]

If she is your ex-wife, she is smarter than the credit you are giving her.

What ambiguity about "my first wife" is there? Did you assume I'm a NYC polygamist?

[TripletDaddy]

What ambiguity about "my first wife" is there? Did you assume I'm a NYC polygamist?

You could still be married to her, hence she is your first wife. I had no idea you are divorced. Should I have known this?

[Babs]

They also use the word "Miss" a lot in these here parts. I've never heard it used for such a variety of women. It doesn't matter the age, but many young children refer to me as "Miss SuperGabers"...

I absolutely CANNOT stand this. When did this become okay? I'm not a Miss, and titles belong with surnames. But inevitably at church the Sunday School coordinator will introduce me as "Miss Babs." :swear:

[Babs]

For some reason, this antebellum diction evokes images of slavery and servitude.

That's exactly what I was going to say. There's no doubt a lot of this is a holdover from slavery. That's where the Miss Hattie nonsense comes from. The pairing was originally conceived to undermine and subjugate, as the female servants were denied both a proper married title and a surname of their own.

[Viking]

You could still be married to her, hence she is your first wife. I had no idea you are divorced. Should I have known this?

Yes, because people who are still married to their first wives refer to them as "my first wife" all the time. Please. Why would you assume I'm divorced? Why not a widower.

[wuapinmon]

That's exactly what I was going to say. There's no doubt a lot of this is a holdover from slavery. That's where the Miss Hattie nonsense comes from. The pairing was originally conceived to undermine and subjugate, as the female servants were denied both a proper married title and a surname of their own.

Honorifics with first names are as old as anything. I'm sure Solon can tell us what the Roman equivalent was. In Spanish we use don and doña as honorifics with people's first names, as a mark of respect. My great-grandmother was "Miss Jenny" to everyone. I call my neighbor Mr. Frank, and I'm 36 (he's mid 70's). There is plenty of doubt about your assertion that it is a holdover from slavery. You wouldn't call your servant "Miss" or "Mister." It wasn't reserved for servants who were "denied a surname of their own." It's a mark of respect, not denigration the way you imply.

For some reason, this antebellum diction evokes images of slavery and servitude. I grew up in SoCal and while you would definitely be in the right for approaching a stranger with a "excuse me, Sir..."......I don't want my kids saying "yes sir" and "yes ma'am" to me and my wife. No thanks.

for those that are annoyed that strangers don't call them sir and ma'am, stay in the South. or get a job that gives you more power. But don't assume that you are being disrespected. you may need to get over yourself just a tad.

It evokes slavery and servitude to you, perhaps because of the steady diet of exaggerations about the South that you've been force-fed by the news media and Hollywood stereotyping. It does not evoke those images for those people whose culture it represents. Black and white say it in the South. To us it evokes images of family, friends, neighbors, and good manners. We don't have a constant looking back to the plantation the way the rest of the country views us and our culture.

I'm not sure if you were talking to me or not, but I don't expect strangers to say it to me. And, you not being Southern, I wouldn't expect you to want your kids to say "yes, sir" to you, as it's not part of your culture.

[Tim]

Honorifics with first names are as old as anything. I'm sure Solon can tell us what the Roman equivalent was. In Spanish we use don and doña as honorifics with people's first names, as a mark of respect. My great-grandmother was "Miss Jenny" to everyone. I call my neighbor Mr. Frank, and I'm 36 (he's mid 70's). There is plenty of doubt about your assertion that it is a holdover from slavery. You wouldn't call your servant "Miss" or "Mister." It wasn't reserved for servants who were "denied a surname of their own." It's a mark of respect, not denigration the way you imply.



It evokes slavery and servitude to you, perhaps because of the steady diet of exaggerations about the South that you've been force-fed by the news media and Hollywood stereotyping. It does not evoke those images for those people whose culture it represents. Black and white say it in the South. To us it evokes images of family, friends, neighbors, and good manners. We don't have a constant looking back to the plantation the way the rest of the country views us and our culture.

I'm not sure if you were talking to me or not, but I don't expect strangers to say it to me. And, you not being Southern, I wouldn't expect you to want your kids to say "yes, sir" to you, as it's not part of your culture.

But by you forcing it onto people who don't have that culture (like your wife's family in St. George), you actually propagate the stereotype.

[Viking]

The usage of Miss as an honorific has very little, if anything, to do with slavery. Growing up I said sir and ma'am to all, usually regardless of age (assuming they looked like they were >20) or race. I had friends who would say the occasional racist thing (I witnessed more racism living in California than in Texas) but who always used sir or ma'am with a member of another race.

"Miss" is simple: it's presumptuous to assume someone you don't know is married. Saying "Missus" could be offensive to the single gal. Hence, Southerners rely on "Miss". This applies equally, regardless of race.

To DDD, Texas officially disinvites you from its borders. Show up, and you're liable to deal with these fellers. Seriously, stay in California..."a southern man don't need you around any how"

[wuapinmon]

But by you forcing it onto people who don't have that culture (like your wife's family in St. George), you actually propagate the stereotype.

Point taken.