Max Hall

[JohnnyLingo]

I find it hilarious that the same QB who, barring injury, will finish his career as the second leading passer (by a healthy margin over #3) in school history, one of the most efficient passers in school history, will be one of the winningest QBs in school history and who won arguably the biggest game in school history continues to be compared to the likes of Doman and Feterik and you (and probably others) won't even put him on the level of a John Beck, who he has outperformed in terms of numbers and wins at the same stage of their careers. Ridiculous.

lingo, I don't care who is making the arguement. It is a dumb one. Max Hall one game into his senior season has led the Cougs to 22 wins. I believe that is good enough for 4th All time at BYU. And he still has likely 11 or 12 games left on the table. He gets to 30, or 8 more wins and he goes down as the starting qb at BYU with the most wins.

I'm talking ability, not win-loss record. Football is a team sport, anyway. Trent Dilfer won a Superbowl.

[TripletDaddy]

Part of the reason we'll always like John Beck is that he was the QB who brought BYU back from the depths. But he was good. The game I'll always think to when I look at his college career was TCU. The accuracy and timing of those comeback routes were just impeccable.

yeah, I get that, but joBeck was basically really good for "most* of his senior season. Prior to that? Why is that the benchmark for the younger crowd? I don't hear any of the older guard using Beck as the benchmark for anything, so maybe I have just answered my own question.

[smokymountainrain]

I'm talking ability, not win-loss record. Football is a team sport, anyway. Trent Dilfer won a Superbowl.

That's a great point since my entire argument was based on wins and losses. I didn't mention anything about numbers. Damn! You got me.

[Babs]

I'm talking ability, not win-loss record. Football is a team sport, anyway. Trent Dilfer won a Superbowl.

I think he demonstrated his ability pretty well in the 4th Q. You watched the game, right?

[All-American]

yeah, I get that, but joBeck was basically really good for "most* of his senior season. Prior to that? Why is that the benchmark for the younger crowd? I don't hear any of the older guard using Beck as the benchmark for anything, so maybe I have just answered my own question.

Well, nobody talks about anything but John Beck's senior season, anyway.

[statman]

Well, nobody talks about anything but John Beck's senior season, anyway.

I wouldn't question his ability to be a very good college QB. But I would agree with part of the thread that says that his physical skills are not stellar - decent size. Decent arm. Unfortunately not going to get him a high draft pick. He'll be lucky to be drafted at all. An invite to a camp as a free agent is all he can reasonably expect. Nothing bad about Max - it's just the way it is...

[JohnnyLingo]

I think he demonstrated his ability pretty well in the 4th Q. You watched the game, right?

Yes. A lot of mid-range passes that were very accurate.

Ability vs. results. Are they really inseparable?

[statman]

Yes. A lot of mid-range passes that were very accurate.

Ability vs. results. Are they really inseparable?

Sure they're separable. Define 'ability.' 'Ability' as in the penchant to win games? Max has lots of that kind of ability (so did Doman). 'Ability' in terms of raw physical skills that will result in an NFL team expending a high draft pick to get you? No.

For the quintessential player showing these differences - see Tim Thibeau. FANTASTIC NCAA QB. But not much NFL 'ability' - at least not at QB. Maybe at WR? Or as a running QB for Wildcat formations. Someone might take a flyer on him, but he won't be a high draft pick. His abilities are not what the NFL is looking for...

[LiveCoug]

Holy cow. Did you really just post that huge long post complaining (yes, I realize that you will respond with "I wasn't complaining at all, I think Hall is a good qb, but blah blah blah") about Max Hall? Dude was nails, made some great decisions (and a couple bad ones, but who doesn't?) and single handedly beat OU with that last drive, dink and dunk or not. What does it matter that it was dink and dunk? Seriously? Hall has shown that he can make a variety of good throws.

[Brian]

He's a good QB, but he can't walk on water.

[Indy Coug]

Max Hall is 8-0 in games decided by 7 points or less. That is the best of any BYU QB ever.

Here's something that dalestephenson compiled on TBS the other day

4th quarter, down by 0 to 7 points. Who are you going to call?

09/08/07 @UCLA, 17-20, 5:53 left. 0-2-0-0, -2 yard drive.
09/27/07 @UNM, 21-21 12:31 left. 2-2-0-30, 31 yard TD drive (pass).
11/24/07 Utah, 9-10, 1:34 left. 1-4-0-49 (4th &18), 80 yard TD drive (run).
09/06/08 @Wash, 21-21, 8:10 left. 6-6-0-73, 84 yard TD drive (pass).
10/25/08 UNLV, 34-35, 6:40 left. 7-7-0-54, 74 yard TD drive (pass).
11/01/08 @CSU, 31-35, 7:10 left. 3-3-0-40, 80 yard TD drive (run).
11/01/08 @CSU, 42-38, 1:36 left. 5-6-0-76, 76 yard TD drive (pass).
09/05/08 Okla, 7-13, 11:47 left. 9-10-0-84, 78 yard TD drive (pass).

That's 33 of 40 (82.5% completion) for 406 yards, 5 TDs and 0 INTs with a 209.01 pass efficiency. Just try and find any other BYU QB with those kinds of stats in that situation, no matter how good/crappy the teams are.

[All-American]

You know, Lingo, your point is not entirely off. Hall's got his weaknesses, and arm strength may very well be one of them.

But there's something to be said for getting behind your guy. And right now, Hall's our guy.

[smokymountainrain]

Max Hall is 8-0 in games decided by 7 points or less. That is the best of any BYU QB ever.

Here's something that dalestephenson compiled on TBS the other day



That's 33 of 40 (82.5% completion) for 406 yards, 5 TDs and 0 INTs with a 209.01 pass efficiency. Just try and find any other BYU QB with those kinds of stats in that situation, no matter how good/crappy the teams are.

Nice stats, Indy.

[Art Vandelay]

You are partially correct. Beck had a much stronger arm, threw a beautiful long ball and was beloved primarily for one broken play against Utah and a the first bowl victory for the cougs in many moons. A better comparison for Max is with Detmer especially as seniors (Detmer's Jr year is one of the best in BYU history). In fact I expect Hall's Sr year to be much better than Ty's in wins and comparable in passing eficiency.

[smokymountainrain]

You are partially correct. Beck had a much stronger arm, threw a beautiful long ball and was beloved primarily for one broken play against Utah and a the first bowl victory for the cougs in many moons. A better comparison for Max is with Detmer especially as seniors (Detmer's Jr year is one of the best in BYU history). In fact I expect Hall's Sr year to be much better than Ty's in wins and comparable in passing eficiency.

If Hall equals Detmer's PER from his senior season and loses less than 2 games, he has a legit shot at the Heisman. If I'm not mistaken, Detmer led the nation his senior season in pass efficiency.