Max Hall

[JohnnyLingo]

Indy, Hall is nails in late-game, close situations. I'm not disputing that.

He may be nails when he has to engineer a game-winning drive, but I'd like to see him dominate a TCU or Utah from start to finish. If John Beck had merely been adequate vs. Utah in 2006 and then been clutch with five minutes left in the game, it would have been 29-10 at that point and all the moxy in the world wouldn't mean squat.

See: TCU, Utah, Arizona 2008.

And my example that Trent Dilfer won a Superbowl was me saying that quarterbacks can get lots of wins even if they aren't all that great, as football is a team sport.

I realize this is terrible timing to bring up concerns about Hall, but my reason for doing it now is that I don't see much improvement from Max in the areas I was worried about last season, and that disappoints me.

That's it. I'm worried about the Florida State, TCU and Utah games for 2009. If we win them, I believe it will be because the defense held our opponent to under 20 points or so, not because Hall beat them soundly.

I've said my piece and will never bring the subject up again.

Thanks.

[Sizzle]

Sorry to go Kyle Whittingham on you and hold you accountable, but yes, Trent Dilfer was the quarterback of a team that had argueably the greatest defense of all time playing with him. His job was don't screw it up. I could buy that arguement if BYUs defense were a good defense, but the defense we saw last year did not carry the team to 10 wins. Now, you can keep digging yourself deeper in the hole if you would like and try to argue that, be my guest.

And for all your love and praise of Beck, have you forgotten the Arizona game his final year? Where BYU lost to a middle of the pack PAC10 team? If Beck could have been a little more Max Hall like, and a little more clutch, we could have won that game. Beck wasn't the consistent Beck you have in your
mind becuase of how he finished. Becks signature win was the TCU game, after BYU already had two losses. Games that, while not his fault for the loss, Beck definitely missed opportunities to win the game, similarly to the way Hall did Saturday.

Seriously, you are cutting off your nose to spite your face. Max Hall isn't the perfect qb. He has flaws. But he's a pretty damn good qb. He's been a leader and willed the team to some wins, to put it in terms you can understand, some wins Beck probably wouldn't have engineered. Appreciate it. Enjoy it.

[JohnnyLingo]

Sorry to go Kyle Whittingham on you and hold you accountable, but yes, Trent Dilfer was the quarterback of a team that had argueably the greatest defense of all time playing with him. His job was don't screw it up. I could buy that arguement if BYUs defense were a good defense, but the defense we saw last year did not carry the team to 10 wins. Now, you can keep digging yourself deeper in the hole if you would like and try to argue that, be my guest.

Defense is one part of the equation. Hall had a great running back, NFL-caliber TE and NFL-caliber wide receiver all season. He still failed miserably against TCU, Utah and Arizona. What I'm saying is that I don't give Hall 100% of the credit for winning 22 games in his career. If you do, that's fine.

And for all your love and praise of Beck, have you forgotten the Arizona game his final year? Where BYU lost to a middle of the pack PAC10 team? If Beck could have been a little more Max Hall like, and a little more clutch, we could have won that game.

Beck was crippled for that game and still completed 75% of his passes for 290 yards, one touchdown and no picks. You're right, if he'd gotten a touchdown instead of driving for a field goal with 5 minutes left in the game, that could have been a win, and Hall probably would have gotten that touchdown.

[Pheidippides]

There is only one thing that matters to me as far as QBs go: wins and losses. I'm seeing the equivalent of the Crowton "win by 9" philosophy as it applies to Max here, and that's ridonkulous.

[TheAzzuri]

There is only one thing that matters to me as far as QBs go: wins and losses. I'm seeing the equivalent of the Crowton "win by 9" philosophy as it applies to Max here, and that's ridonkulous.

I like to apply that philosophy to kick returners as well, because it makes so much sense.

[Colly Wolly]

My two cents: this thread should not exist.

[cougjunkie]

Just FYI Nfl Draftcountdown has Max Hall ranked as the 8th best QB prospect right now.

That would put him 4th-5th round.

Also to say he has a weak arm is kind of dumb, think about the pass on the run 45 yards downfield against Utah 2 years ago.

He does not have a John Beck like arm but he has a good enough arm to make all the necessary throws.

Max Hall is a winner, and has the stats to back it up, he actually reminds me a lot of Ken Dorsey when he was at Miami.

[Surfah]

Just FYI Nfl Draftcountdown has Max Hall ranked as the 8th best QB prospect right now.

That would put him 4th-5th round.

Also to say he has a weak arm is kind of dumb, think about the pass on the run 45 yards downfield against Utah 2 years ago.

He does not have a John Beck like arm but he has a good enough arm to make all the necessary throws.

Max Hall is a winner, and has the stats to back it up, he actually reminds me a lot of Ken Dorsey when he was at Miami.

Funny, the comparisons to Dorsey, Doman and Detmer. That's damn good company. All winners. One a Heisman winner and finalist. Another was a two time Heisman finalist. All drafted. All hung in the NFL for a few years.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

Hall hit Pitta as he was rolling out on a 20 yard pass on the last drive. That's not dink or dunk. BYU doesn't have the wide receivers right now to commonly be hitting guys on 40 yard bombs in stride. That's a low percentage play in any offense and it's extremely low with BYU's wide receiving corps. I don't understand why guys think we have Randy Moss out there.

Only a moron would complain about the Max Hall pass to Collie on 4th and 18. Hall almost got sacked on the play, escapes the pass rush and throws the ball on the run and converts a miraculous play. And you're bitching about Hall not hitting Collie for a TD on that play!?

Rather than complain about people not giving you the benefit of the doubt, you'd be better off giving us reason to give you the benefit of the doubt. Your post starting this thread doesn't help your cause.

[Brian]

I've said my piece and will never bring the subject up again.
Thanks.

Promise?

Doh! You just replied to something after this. dang.

[JohnnyLingo]

And for all your love and praise of Beck, have you forgotten the Arizona game his final year? Where BYU lost to a middle of the pack PAC10 team?

Here's something interesting... the Arizona game was lost on a 48-yard field goal. Oklahoma lost on Saturday on a 54-yard field goal. There is no difference between Hall's performance vs. Oklahoma and Beck's vs. Arizona... it all came down to the other team's kicker. Nick Folk made his kick and Way missed his.

Somehow this means Beck is a major failure in that game and Hall is a hero.

[smokymountainrain]

Here's something interesting... the Arizona game was lost on a 48-yard field goal. Oklahoma lost on Saturday on a 54-yard field goal. There is no difference between Hall's performance vs. Oklahoma and Beck's vs. Arizona... it all came down to the other team's kicker. Nick Folk made his kick and Way missed his.

Somehow this means Beck is a major failure in that game and Hall is a hero.

Call me crazy, but I believe the thinking here is that this Oklahoma team is just a tad better than that Arizona team.

[JohnnyLingo]

Call me crazy, but I believe the thinking here is that this Oklahoma team is just a tad better than that Arizona team.

Probably, though again, Beck was working on two severely sprained ankles for that game.

[cougjunkie]

Probably, though again, Beck was working on two severely sprained ankles for that game.

Beck had the sprained ankles for the Boston College game, not the AZ game.

[JohnnyLingo]

Beck had the sprained ankles for the Boston College game, not the AZ game.

Did he sprain them both during the Tulsa game, then? I thought for sure he was hurt vs. Arizona.