Good interview with Brandon Doman on 1280 about BYU

[oxcoug]

2012 was extremely frustrating because coaches and Nelson both knew he was injured, but kept sending him out anyways. That was the Nelson debacle- 2012, not 2011.

That's revisionist history.

The "Nelson debacle" spans the entire time that BYU coaches insisted on pretending he was a D1 QB.

One of the worst games Riley played - which is saying something - was fully healthy against Tulsa in 2011 bowl game. He completed 17 / 40 passes and threw 2 INTs and was extremely fortunate to have two other fair catch INTs blown by Tulsa defenders. He also managed a total of 16 rushing yards on 13 carries.

But most fans don't remember how awful he was in that game because of two half-ending TDs.

Injured or healthy Riley was never suited to being a D1 QB.

[Sizzle]

This. Heaps was a head case and lost the support of his team. Riley had the support but not the physical ability to play QB at a good D1 level. The biggest issue was not having someone between Heaps and Riley that could take the reins when Heaps sucked.

I'm sorry, but when your QB, not matter who it is, doesn't have time to get through his progressions and make reads, and set his feet and throw, he can't be successful. I maintained, and Doman essentially reinforced the point in the interview yesterday, that the larger issue was the OL play, and was the genesis for the change. Bringing Anae back in had more to do with his impact and expertiese on the OL than anything else. That's the point I initially intended to make, and the point I firmly believe in. Last year wouldn't have been significantly better with Heaps either, because our OL underperformed. I lay that on the coaches, one in particular, who thankfully is coaching in Logan this year. My gut tells me that the Aggies won't see a huge drop off in OL play this year, but as players graduate and move on? Yup, I'd expect a drop.

[Blueintheface]

:igiveup: Yes, I am aware that the emoticon was removed from CS.

[Indy Coug]

I'm sorry, but when your QB, not matter who it is, doesn't have time to get through his progressions and make reads, and set his feet and throw, he can't be successful. I maintained, and Doman essentially reinforced the point in the interview yesterday, that the larger issue was the OL play, and was the genesis for the change. Bringing Anae back in had more to do with his impact and expertiese on the OL than anything else. That's the point I initially intended to make, and the point I firmly believe in. Last year wouldn't have been significantly better with Heaps either, because our OL underperformed. I lay that on the coaches, one in particular, who thankfully is coaching in Logan this year. My gut tells me that the Aggies won't see a huge drop off in OL play this year, but as players graduate and move on? Yup, I'd expect a drop.

I'm not going to offer up a Weber defense, but if you look at the recruiting pedigree of our 2011/2012 OL, it's not particularly impressive outside of Matt Reynolds. I'm talking about the OL that actually played and not the ones that spent most of their time in surgery.

[smokymountainrain]

Heaps sucked, the OL sucked, the play calling sucked. Let's not pretend one or the other didn't suck just so we can defend one of them. How's that for an articulate post, bitches?!

[MarkGrace]

Heaps sucked, the OL sucked, the play calling sucked. Let's not pretend one or the other didn't suck just so we can defend one of them. How's that for an articulate post, bitches?!

Seems like you're defending Riley by excluding him. He sucked donkey balls as well.

But I'm with Ox -- the mistake was made as soon as they let that kid take a snap at QB. Should have never, ever happened.

[The_Douger]

That's revisionist history.

The "Nelson debacle" spans the entire time that BYU coaches insisted on pretending he was a D1 QB.

One of the worst games Riley played - which is saying something - was fully healthy against Tulsa in 2011 bowl game. He completed 17 / 40 passes and threw 2 INTs and was extremely fortunate to have two other fair catch INTs blown by Tulsa defenders. He also managed a total of 16 rushing yards on 13 carries.

But most fans don't remember how awful he was in that game because of two half-ending TDs.

Injured or healthy Riley was never suited to being a D1 QB.

Great take, and completely agreed.

[Harry Tic]

That's revisionist history.

The "Nelson debacle" spans the entire time that BYU coaches insisted on pretending he was a D1 QB.

One of the worst games Riley played - which is saying something - was fully healthy against Tulsa in 2011 bowl game. He completed 17 / 40 passes and threw 2 INTs and was extremely fortunate to have two other fair catch INTs blown by Tulsa defenders. He also managed a total of 16 rushing yards on 13 carries.

But most fans don't remember how awful he was in that game because of two half-ending TDs.

Injured or healthy Riley was never suited to being a D1 QB.

Full disclosure from a Riley defender (there are very few of us, I know). He had a limited skill set. He was best suited to coming off the bench and providing a spark rather than slogging it out as "the guy," particularly at a place like BYU. He was horribly mismanaged by Doman and Bronco, who seemed to be determined to make him into something he never could be.

But 2011 would have been a low point in BYU football history without him--or somebody--coming in and picking up the pieces. The loss to Utah State would have been devastating. Yeah, he throws an ugly ball and got away with stuff he never should have. So what? So did Detmer. And it's flat out wrong to say he was "fully healthy" at Tulsa. It was evident to anyone that watched it that he wasn't.

Make no mistake: the Heaps-Nelson debacle was a systemic breakdown. It's really unfair to impugn either one of those guys. Neither one was put in a situation where they could succeed.

[smokymountainrain]

Seems like you're defending Riley by excluding him. He sucked donkey balls as well.

But I'm with Ox -- the mistake was made as soon as they let that kid take a snap at QB. Should have never, ever happened.

I thought it was a given, that we all agree Riley sucked so wasn't necessary to mention his name.

I also agree that ideally BYU coaches shouldn't have given Nelson a chance to ever take a snap, unfortunately the play of Heaps that year forced their hand. Wait, was Alex Kuresa on the team in 2011? If so, I take that back - the coaches were not forced to play Nelson, they could have played the next Detmer.

[The_Douger]

Full disclosure from a Riley defender (there are very few of us, I know). He had a limited skill set. He was best suited to coming off the bench and providing a spark rather than slogging it out as "the guy," particularly at a place like BYU. He was horribly mismanaged by Doman and Bronco, who seemed to be determined to make him into something he never could be.

But 2011 would have been a low point in BYU football history without him--or somebody--coming in and picking up the pieces. The loss to Utah State would have been devastating. Yeah, he throws an ugly ball and got away with stuff he never should have. So what? So did Detmer. And it's flat out wrong to say he was "fully healthy" at Tulsa. It was evident to anyone that watched it that he wasn't.

Make no mistake: the Heaps-Nelson debacle was a systemic breakdown. It's really unfair to impugn either one of those guys. Neither one was put in a situation where they could succeed.

I felt he was best suited to never play QB at BYU. Nelson was best suited to play defense or special teams.

I think it's Indy that said this, but I agree with his take that says Bronco's biggest failure was not having a serious option ready to play as a senior during Heaps freshman year.

[SCcoug]

Yeah, he throws an ugly ball and got away with stuff he never should have. So what? So did Detmer.

lol

[MarkGrace]

I thought it was a given, that we all agree Riley sucked so wasn't necessary to mention his name.

You never can be too sure with that "badass" thread still lurking somewhere around here!

[Sizzle]

I'm not going to offer up a Weber defense, but if you look at the recruiting pedigree of our 2011/2012 OL, it's not particularly impressive outside of Matt Reynolds. I'm talking about the OL that actually played and not the ones that spent most of their time in surgery.

I can't blame them though. I wouldn't have wanted to play for Weber either. :P

[smokymountainrain]

Full disclosure from a Riley defender (there are very few of us, I know). He had a limited skill set. He was best suited to coming off the bench and providing a spark rather than slogging it out as "the guy," particularly at a place like BYU. He was horribly mismanaged by Doman and Bronco, who seemed to be determined to make him into something he never could be.

But 2011 would have been a low point in BYU football history without him--or somebody--coming in and picking up the pieces. The loss to Utah State would have been devastating. Yeah, he throws an ugly ball and got away with stuff he never should have. So what? So did Detmer. And it's flat out wrong to say he was "fully healthy" at Tulsa. It was evident to anyone that watched it that he wasn't.

Make no mistake: the Heaps-Nelson debacle was a systemic breakdown. It's really unfair to impugn either one of those guys. Neither one was put in a situation where they could succeed.

Harry, I like you and I agree with the bulk of your post but please don't ever compare Nelson to the GOAT again.

[MarkGrace]

Full disclosure from a Riley defender (there are very few of us, I know). He had a limited skill set. He was best suited to coming off the bench and providing a spark rather than slogging it out as "the guy," particularly at a place like BYU. He was horribly mismanaged by Doman and Bronco, who seemed to be determined to make him into something he never could be.

But 2011 would have been a low point in BYU football history without him--or somebody--coming in and picking up the pieces. The loss to Utah State would have been devastating. Yeah, he throws an ugly ball and got away with stuff he never should have. So what? So did Detmer. And it's flat out wrong to say he was "fully healthy" at Tulsa. It was evident to anyone that watched it that he wasn't.

Make no mistake: the Heaps-Nelson debacle was a systemic breakdown. It's really unfair to impugn either one of those guys. Neither one was put in a situation where they could succeed.

Without getting into it because you already said we're not discussing it, but more stuff I don't agree with.