If you were Bronco and were offered the Colorado job

[YOhio]

For the life of me I don't understand the enjoyment people get from mocking an old man barely hanging on to life.

Do all of you hate the fact I will be getting my Social Security and you won't.

I don't get it either, man. Bullies and jerks. I'm sorry you have to deal with it.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Whoa, the dude likes them young. Was it weird for you kids to have graduated HS at the same time as their new mom?

I figured if I said Utah Technical College, nobody would know what I was talking about.

[byu71]

I don't get it either, man. Bullies and jerks. I'm sorry you have to deal with it.

Thanks, but deal with what? I forgot what I was talking about.

[Shaka]

I figured if I said Utah Technical College, nobody would know what I was talking about.

They used to call it Tray (sp?) Tech.

I have no idea what that means. When I did my time there it was UVSC.

[falafel]

They used to call it Tray (sp?) Tech.

I have no idea what that means. When I did my time there it was UVSC.

I think it was called Trade Tech. At least that's what my dad, a proud Trade Tech graduate, calls it.

[Cougarmandias]

The biggest reason BYU focuses so much on test scores and grades is because those are some of the key elements in the rankings that BYU values most. It's all part of BYU's push to brand itself as a legitimate, elite university. As long as that is BYU's main push, the easily measurable factors will be given a disproportionate weight.

Ding ding ding ding!

Actually I personally don't like the idea of BYU being exclusively for the kids with good grades and test scores, or the idea of some kind of lottery that excludes kids with good grades and test scores. My feeling is that the church just needs to bite the bullet and pay to dramatically expand BYU or Ricks or both. There are ways to do that and still maintain the 'elite' drive (for instance, have a separate college within the university like Cornell does).

The thing is, if the church succeeds at expanding the missionary program in a big way with the new age limits, which is looking possible, then having more church schools, more slots at church schools, is a natural complement, and ultimately that's probably more important than if BYU is grudgingly admitted as full of smart people even though its not a 'real' academic institution. The problem is that the institutes at most schools aren't huge enough and active enough and vibrant enough to really be full substitutes.

Depending on how you run the numbers, one alternative might be to work out some kind of arrangement with already-existing institutions where they grant some credits for institute classes and cooperate with the church in setting up Honor-Code like arrangements/approved housing/religious study requirements/permission to go on missions without losing admission, for a group of students who in turn receive scholarship monies from the Church.

[byu71]

Ding ding ding ding!

Actually I personally don't like the idea of BYU being exclusively for the kids with good grades and test scores, or the idea of some kind of lottery that excludes kids with good grades and test scores. My feeling is that the church just needs to bite the bullet and pay to dramatically expand BYU or Ricks or both. There are ways to do that and still maintain the 'elite' drive (for instance, have a separate college within the university like Cornell does).

The thing is, if the church succeeds at expanding the missionary program in a big way with the new age limits, which is looking possible, then having more church schools, more slots at church schools, is a natural complement, and ultimately that's probably more important than if BYU is grudgingly admitted as full of smart people even though its not a 'real' academic institution. The problem is that the institutes at most schools aren't huge enough and active enough and vibrant enough to really be full substitutes.

Depending on how you run the numbers, one alternative might be to work out some kind of arrangement with already-existing institutions where they grant some credits for institute classes and cooperate with the church in setting up Honor-Code like arrangements/approved housing/religious study requirements/permission to go on missions without losing admission, for a group of students who in turn receive scholarship monies from the Church.

Or another way to look at more missionaries, young men and women leaving early is by the time they get to college most will be out of the rebellious stage. Less chance for the evil folks at other Universities to influence them. Therefor the need to go to a church school and be baby sat will be less.

[Cougarmandias]

Or another way to look at more missionaries, young men and women leaving early is by the time they get to college most will be out of the rebellious stage. Less chance for the evil folks at other Universities to influence them. Therefor the need to go to a church school and be baby sat will be less.

Could be. My guess is that going to a church school or someplace with a robust institute will help in the marriage department, and that getting hitched will be the single biggest predictor of life-long activity, but I'm just guessing.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Ding ding ding ding!

Actually I personally don't like the idea of BYU being exclusively for the kids with good grades and test scores, or the idea of some kind of lottery that excludes kids with good grades and test scores. My feeling is that the church just needs to bite the bullet and pay to dramatically expand BYU or Ricks or both. There are ways to do that and still maintain the 'elite' drive (for instance, have a separate college within the university like Cornell does).

The thing is, if the church succeeds at expanding the missionary program in a big way with the new age limits, which is looking possible, then having more church schools, more slots at church schools, is a natural complement, and ultimately that's probably more important than if BYU is grudgingly admitted as full of smart people even though its not a 'real' academic institution. The problem is that the institutes at most schools aren't huge enough and active enough and vibrant enough to really be full substitutes.

I don't think the church believes that they are under an obligation to provide a BYU experience to every LDS college-age kid. I agree with this philosophy. There are plenty of fine universities out there.

Depending on how you run the numbers, one alternative might be to work out some kind of arrangement with already-existing institutions where they grant some credits for institute classes and cooperate with the church in setting up Honor-Code like arrangements/approved housing/religious study requirements/permission to go on missions without losing admission, for a group of students who in turn receive scholarship monies from the Church.

Terrible idea. That is the worst thing about BYU. Let's not try to expand it.

[byu71]

getting hitched will be the single biggest predictor of life-long activity, but I'm just guessing.

I would guess this along with having kids right after would be correct. I wonder if studies have been done.

Maybe that is why they pushed so hard for getting married and having kids right away back in the 60's and 70's.

[Jeff Lebowski]

For the life of me I don't understand the enjoyment people get from mocking an old man barely hanging on to life.

Do all of you hate the fact I will be getting my Social Security and you won't.

It's a guilty pleasure. But you aren't helping matters by telling us how they have dispatched a team of experts to Provo to teach BYU students how to talk with one another. That's the funniest thing I have read on this board in a long time.

[Cougarmandias]

Terrible idea. That is the worst thing about BYU. Let's not try to expand it.

I'm gonna guess that the folks at BYU and the folks in the Church who make education-related decisions don't agree with you.

If you are wanting to make non-church schools successful magnets to support robust institutes, to the point that you support it with schollies, you have to include some kind of honor-code arrangment. Whether making magnets is actually a good idea or not is another question, but if you do it, you have to include some kind of honor code thing.

[lambdacoug]

I figured if I said Utah Technical College, nobody would know what I was talking about.

It was UVCC my freshman year.

I wonder what they'll change the name to next time? BYU-Orem?

[Jeff Lebowski]

I'm gonna guess that the folks at BYU and the folks in the Church who make education-related decisions don't agree with you.

If you are wanting to make non-church schools successful magnets to support robust institutes, to the point that you support it with schollies, you have to include some kind of honor-code arrangment. Whether making magnets is actually a good idea or not is another question, but if you do it, you have to include some kind of honor code thing.

Somehow we need to get our members to understand that forcing obedience to gospel principles by applying a system of reporting sins of other students to a group of bureaucrats and then having those bureaucrats assign a secular punishment (loss of scholarship, etc.) to that sin is not at all consistent with the gospel of Jesus Christ and is not productive in instilling healthy beliefs and values in students at a vulnerable stage in life. The current institute system works just fine.

[byu71]

But you aren't helping matters by telling us how they have dispatched a team of experts to Provo to teach BYU students how to talk with one another.

What a stretch to try and make me look foolish. You ought to go into politics.

What I said could just as easily be a "few", not a team of experts, couples to assist with any kids who might be having difficulties socially.

Go to Provo?? They could already be living there. Talking and socially engaging are two different matters. I talk to my ex all the time.

Heaven forbid if you don't think the church or people within it would never come up with such a crazy idea.