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Originally posted by Shaka
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I was evaluating universities when BYU started ratcheting up its academic standards in the late eighties and then stuck around for a long time after I got back from my mission in the early nineties. I lived through the transition from a school that admitted almost any return missionary to one that demanded top high school students.
Personally I thought BYU got less special every time they increased academic standards. Before BYU had a nice cross section of students ranging from moderately dumb jocks to the super smart. When the academic standards increased that nice cross section disappeared and the student body got nerdier and the hot girls (ok not all of them) started going to UVU. In a way I wish the Church would quit trying to make BYU into an academic powerhouse and get that nice mix back by reserving space for the super smart and then putting everyone else who wanted to go into a lottery. That nice cross would section would return.
Personally I thought BYU got less special every time they increased academic standards. Before BYU had a nice cross section of students ranging from moderately dumb jocks to the super smart. When the academic standards increased that nice cross section disappeared and the student body got nerdier and the hot girls (ok not all of them) started going to UVU. In a way I wish the Church would quit trying to make BYU into an academic powerhouse and get that nice mix back by reserving space for the super smart and then putting everyone else who wanted to go into a lottery. That nice cross would section would return.
Originally posted by Paperback Writer
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In the late eighties I was a graduate student at BYU in the Tanner building working a grad assistantship gig in the Smoot building. So like Shaka, I saw the transition occur to demanding top students; but my view was also from inside the administration.
Uncle Ted links Elder Holland's talk about BYU becoming a Harvard, etc. A more apt comparison is Notre Dame. And I saw this new trend while at BYU with BYU inching closer to Notre Dame acceptance rates which I remember as about 25%. In my view, it won't be long before BYU is below 50% acceptance and it might be there already (I suspect BYU fudges their published admission percentages).
I agree with Shaka that every time BYU increases admission requirements the student body becomes less diversified and more nerdy. And I also agree that BYU needs to have a better mix of students. But a lottery is not the solution-more on that later.
[SOAPBOX ON]What I see happening in BYU admissions is that BYU is trying to not just get the best students but also the best orthodox Mormon students who qualify. Specifically, BYU now requires Seminary teacher input on the BYU application (This is in addition to Bishop and SP endorsement). In my view, it's a step backwards. I don't have a problem with a checkbox for seminary graduate but I have a problem with a seminary teacher that was assigned to my kid, may not be a good teacher, and who may not get along very well with my kid. Its anecdotal, but I've heard complaints by some parents in my corner of the world lament that their kid didn't get accepted to BYU despite her being president of the Laurels, being a sterling example to all the YW, being well liked, etc. They didn't appreciate my response that maybe, just maybe, the president of the Laurels should have taken an AP class or two while in high school if they expected to be accepted to a higly ranked university.[SOAPBOX OFF]
Getting back to the lottery idea, I think BYU admissions does a very poor job of student evaluation. Typically, they just look at GPA and ACT score and draw a line. My understanding is that there is some middle ground where they actually evaluate the student application and look at extracurriculars and read the essays, etc. But for the most part, BYU doesn't really attempt to diversify. So if BYU admissions predominantly goes off of GPA and ACT then they are going to get an incoming class of nerds. Any attempts to go beyond that tend to be in the direction of eliminating the "less worthy" which actually makes BYU less diverse. So rather than have a lottery, I think BYU should put more time and resources on student evaluation. Perhaps they are because they no longer send out early acceptances. To be fair, BYU is in a difficult position. What happens when they accept the football captain at the expense of the nerd with better academic credentials?
Uncle Ted links Elder Holland's talk about BYU becoming a Harvard, etc. A more apt comparison is Notre Dame. And I saw this new trend while at BYU with BYU inching closer to Notre Dame acceptance rates which I remember as about 25%. In my view, it won't be long before BYU is below 50% acceptance and it might be there already (I suspect BYU fudges their published admission percentages).
I agree with Shaka that every time BYU increases admission requirements the student body becomes less diversified and more nerdy. And I also agree that BYU needs to have a better mix of students. But a lottery is not the solution-more on that later.
[SOAPBOX ON]What I see happening in BYU admissions is that BYU is trying to not just get the best students but also the best orthodox Mormon students who qualify. Specifically, BYU now requires Seminary teacher input on the BYU application (This is in addition to Bishop and SP endorsement). In my view, it's a step backwards. I don't have a problem with a checkbox for seminary graduate but I have a problem with a seminary teacher that was assigned to my kid, may not be a good teacher, and who may not get along very well with my kid. Its anecdotal, but I've heard complaints by some parents in my corner of the world lament that their kid didn't get accepted to BYU despite her being president of the Laurels, being a sterling example to all the YW, being well liked, etc. They didn't appreciate my response that maybe, just maybe, the president of the Laurels should have taken an AP class or two while in high school if they expected to be accepted to a higly ranked university.[SOAPBOX OFF]
Getting back to the lottery idea, I think BYU admissions does a very poor job of student evaluation. Typically, they just look at GPA and ACT score and draw a line. My understanding is that there is some middle ground where they actually evaluate the student application and look at extracurriculars and read the essays, etc. But for the most part, BYU doesn't really attempt to diversify. So if BYU admissions predominantly goes off of GPA and ACT then they are going to get an incoming class of nerds. Any attempts to go beyond that tend to be in the direction of eliminating the "less worthy" which actually makes BYU less diverse. So rather than have a lottery, I think BYU should put more time and resources on student evaluation. Perhaps they are because they no longer send out early acceptances. To be fair, BYU is in a difficult position. What happens when they accept the football captain at the expense of the nerd with better academic credentials?
"A hoard of smart kids. Oh no!"
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