Paint it Black: BYU will roll over Oregon State

[Eddie]

I missed that. What did he say?

Actually - the reporter asked Detmer what advice he would give Nelson if he were coaching him (referring to Detmer currently coaching).

Ty's reply was that he would tell Nelson that it's OK to throw the ball away sometimes.

Funny - that is the exact same advice I would give!

Nelson not giving up on a play ever will occasionally lead to a good play that shouldn't have been. Like the dropped snap that he picked up and then threw to an out - when most coaches would tell you to just jump on the ball and play for another down. That's also the kind of play that led to one of Utah's defensive TD's.

Not being willing to throw it away has also lead to lost yardage and turnovers for Riley. I would be curious as to the overall trade off of good versus bad coming from refusing to throw it away. But my assumption is that more often than not bad things happen.

[Coach McGuirk]

rewatched the game on TV for the first time. Not that pissed anymore. I still think we were outcoached. Their Oline is very, very good (I wish we had that oline) and the difference in the game. That is about it. Nelson is what he is and I can't bitch about it anymore, it isn't going to help. He just can't make the throws I want him to.

[Art Vandelay]

rewatched the game on TV for the first time. Not that pissed anymore. I still think we were outcoached. Their Oline is very, very good (I wish we had that oline) and the difference in the game. That is about it. Nelson is what he is and I can't bitch about it anymore, it isn't going to help. He just can't make the throws I want him to.

I haven't read most of this thread, so not sure how often this was brought up. But during the game I was impressed by how nasty their O-line was with power blocking, and how good of job they did against our speed. Neither S. Hadley nor KVN are big guys, they both rely upon speed and good spin moves. Unfortunately, neither guy was able to generate much pressure. Also, for never seeing the field before, Vaz did a good job of stepping up in the pocket when needed, and holding tough, while taking some big hits.

With the speed of our OLB neutralized, Tree was really exposed. He is good between the tackles, but really struggles on his angles when asked to go a little wider to make plays.

Also, 100% agree on the BARN. As I've said before, he is the gridiron version of Zylstra; he is, what he is. Hating on the kid, or working myself into a frenzy isn't going to change the facts. I will sit back, cheer on the Cougs, and accept the fact BYU is a mediocre team.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Come on, guys. If we don't all hate Riley with sufficient passion, HSARU will be pissed.

[SoCalCoug]

I checked byucougars.com Lindsley played through 86, Jensen through 87, so you must be right. Those were some forgettable years.

I don't have to check byucougars.com for that - I lived it - it was my freshman year.

Lindsley had an incredible first game, but eventually, Bob Jenson replaced him. Jensen is most remembered for his almost-touchdown against Air Force, where he was all alone running to the end zone, when he raised his arms in celebration of the end zone being 10 yards away, and promptly tripped and fell, with nobody within 20 yards of him. BYU ended up settling for a field goal.

[Art Vandelay]

Come on, guys. If we don't all hate Riley with sufficient passion, HSARU will be pissed.

He is able to express other emotions? Huh. The more you know.

[mtnbiker]

Well, there you go. Somebody on CB posted a comparison of senior qbs since the LaVell era started, and sure enough, Riley's numbers come in last, just behind Bob Jensen's. He says Jensen was replaced after the 7th game of the season. About time to do the same this year, I figure.

How bad is Riley Nelson's 2012 season as measured against other Sr. BYU QBs?
I'm interested in this topic because, as we all know, often when BYU has had a special season, it's generally been with a senior quarterback at the helm. Although I was guarded in my expectations for this year, I figured with Riley being a senior, we would see significant improvement in our offensive performance this year. I never could have imagined that we would struggle like we have. Rather than just bagging on Riley, I thought it would be worthwhile to look at the real numbers to gauge his performance this year historically against other BYU senior quarterbacks. I figured the LaVell era would provide a good sample size. Thus, the list goes back to 1974

Senior Quarterbacks at BYU

Player Year Comp. % Yards TD's Int. Efficiency
Gary Shiede 1974 60 2174 23 19 133.84
Gifford Nielsen 1976 56 3129 29 19 143.23
Marc Wilson 1979 59 3720 29 15 147.11
Jim McMahon 1981 64 3555 30 7 154.99
Steve Young 1983 71 3902 33 10 168.45
Robbie Bosco 1985 70 4273 30 24 146.37
Steve Lindsley* 1986 63 2273 12 18 129.84
Bob Jensen** 1987 56 2298 10 14 117.87
Ty Detmer 1991 62 4031 35 12 168.51
Steve Sarkisian 1996 69 4027 33 12 173.56
Kevin Feterik 1999 62 3554 25 15 138.95
Brandon Doman 2001 64 3542 33 8 159.66
John Beck 2006 69 3888 32 8 169.05
Max Hall 2009 62 3560 33 14 160.13
Riley Nelson 2012 58 1059 6 8 115.47

* Replaced by Bob Jensen after 10th game. Jensen finished the year with 465 yds. 3 TD 4 int.
** Replaced by Sean Covey after the 7th game: Covey finished the year with 1668 yds. 8 TD 9 int.

Note: Although not a senior, in 1988 Sean Covey was: 55% 2607 yds. 13 TD 10 int. 130.37 efficiency. Replaced by Ty Detmer at end of season.
Note: In 1992 John Walsh was injured for the season in the 3rd game. Steve Clements replaced him and was injured for the season at the beginning of the 4th game. Ryan Hancock replaced Clements and in his first game, threw for 383 yards. In 9 games he had 17 TDs and 13 int. and 2635 yds.

Here are the points I take from this data:

1. The stretch from 2010-12 is markedly similar to the period from 1986-88. I remember well that stretch and how frustrating it was. Hopefully Taysom Hill can be to the next three years, what Ty Detmer was to BYU from 1989-1991.
2. Riley is clearly one of the 2-3 worst senior quarterbacks in the last 40 years. He has the worst efficiency rating and is on pace to have the fewest TD passes and fewest yards of any senior quarterback of the last 40 years.
3. Although I've been wanting to see Lark for sometime and believe he should have started against Boise, if not Utah, the data suggests that the backup does not usually perform significantly better than the starter. Obviously, the exception to this is Ryan Hancock who was much better than both Walsh and Clements in 1992. Doman was also much better than Engeman and Charlie Peterson in 2000-01 which makes the refusal to play Lark all the more ironic.
4. We need to quit recruiting Utah for our quarterbacks. This is said "tongue in cheek" but it is interesting to note than Lindsley, Jensen, and Riley were all from Utah. Covey and Engeman were also from Utah.
5. Steve Young probably had the best year of any of the quarterbacks but both John Beck and Steve Sarkisian had much better senior years than I had previously given them credit for.

[Coach McGuirk]

Come on, guys. If we don't all hate Riley with sufficient passion, HSARU will be pissed.

oh, I sufficiently hate him. I just can't care about it anymore until Bronco Nelsonhall figures out that our starting QB shouldn't be a QB.

[The_Douger]

I haven't read most of this thread, so not sure how often this was brought up. But during the game I was impressed by how nasty their O-line was with power blocking, and how good of job they did against our speed. Neither S. Hadley nor KVN are big guys, they both rely upon speed and good spin moves. Unfortunately, neither guy was able to generate much pressure. Also, for never seeing the field before, Vaz did a good job of stepping up in the pocket when needed, and holding tough, while taking some big hits.

With the speed of our OLB neutralized, Tree was really exposed. He is good between the tackles, but really struggles on his angles when asked to go a little wider to make plays.

Also, 100% agree on the BARN. As I've said before, he is the gridiron version of Zylstra; he is, what he is. Hating on the kid, or working myself into a frenzy isn't going to change the facts. I will sit back, cheer on the Cougs, and accept the fact BYU is a mediocre team.

Another thing they were able to do was max protect and get guys open with only three or four guys running routes. They kept the RB in there and a TE, and ran the 2 WRs and one TE on routes during many of their plays.

We dropped 7 or 8 a lot of the time to cover 3 and still got burned much of the time.

And completely agreed on Ogletree. I can't believe there's not someone better we can put in on passing downs. He is a complete liability out there against pretty much anyone.

[Hsaru]

Another thing they were able to do was max protect and get guys open with only three or four guys running routes. They kept the RB in there and a TE, and ran the 2 WRs and one TE on routes during many of their plays.

We dropped 7 or 8 a lot of the time to cover 3 and still got burned much of the time.

And completely agreed on Ogletree. I can't believe there's not someone better we can put in on passing downs. He is a complete liability out there against pretty much anyone.

How many less TDs would we have given up the last two years if Bronco used Bills/Hague/Sampson in the nickel instead of Ogletree.

[UtahDan]

How many less TDs would we have given up the last two years if Bronco used Bills/Hague/Sampson in the nickel instead of Ogletree.

Three.

[MarkGrace]

Three.

lol

[The_Douger]

How many less TDs would we have given up the last two years if Bronco used Bills/Hague/Sampson in the nickel instead of Ogletree.

At least 2 against TCU last year.

A lot of people like to point at Ogletree's large number of tackles as evidence of how good he is. In reality, they're just running away from the rest of the guys. Ogletree is the weakest player in the front seven, and so they run at him. In the running game, more often than not, he makes the tackle, but Kaveinga never gets run at.

You tell me who the other team's coaches respect more.

[Donuthole]

How many less TDs would we have given up the last two years if Bronco used Bills/Hague/Sampson in the nickel instead of Ogletree.

Fewer. How many fewer.

[MarkGrace]

Fewer. How many fewer.

Three.