All Good Things Must Come to An End

[Jeff Lebowski]

Finally.

That means that you don't get to talk about it anymore.

I don't need to. The case is over.

[Top Ute]

Apart from the '96 group, have we fielded a truly great team in any other year? There have definitely been some other good ones, but I don't know that they were that much different that what BYU has fielded in the years preceding the last three.

I thought your 2006 team was great, certainly better than its final record.

[pelagius]

I don't need to. The case is over.

I don't believe you've responded to the fictional/made up data that some have posted. Are you avoiding the dark implications of the made up data?

[MarkGrace]

I thought your 2006 team was great, certainly better than its final record.

That team might have been by the end of the year. If Beck hit that plane he finished on earlier in the year it might have been reflected in the record as well.

[MarkGrace]

So when BYU football officially ends what will they do with LES?

Stadium of Fire.

[Top Ute]

Here's the glass half full view of BYU football...

The improvement of Utah is a good thing for BYU football. It's not necessarily a zero-sum situation, meaning that any progress made by Utah comes at the expense of BYU. BYU is a national university and there is talent enough for both programs to be very good. A good Utah program should provide incentive for BYU to get better.

Also, BYU need only to look further North to Logan. Utah St. already defeated Utah and lost to Wisconsin in Madison by a missed FG at the end of the game (sound familar?). If Utah St. can play good football, it's certainly possible for BYU to do the same.

College football can be cyclical. All major programs have had periods of falling out of national Prominence. It's happened at USC, Alabama, Oklahoma, and Notre Dame to name just a few off the top of my head. And something similar happened at the BYU not that long ago. BYU seemed to recover from not having a winning season for 4 years in a row to having double digit win seasons in five of the past six seasons. And now it has come to an end because of a missed 36 YD FG as time expored??? I've watched enough football to know that that is something that can be fixed.

BYU will be fine. And will be a better program because Utah and Utah St. are playing good football.

BYU will be fine, but I disagree when you say Utah football being better helps BYU. It sure didn't help Utah from the mid-70s through Fassel, although there were spurts, but nothing that was sustained. The "incentive" factor that you mentioned eventually came into play for Utah, but there are still countless examples of Utah stubbing its toe through the fault of no one else during that time as well.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I don't believe you've responded to the fictional/made up data that some have posted. Are you avoiding the dark implications of the made up data?

I leave the heavy lifting on the numerical analysis to you.

Memo to self: Pelagius deserves a big bonus this year.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

Stadium of Fire.

Maybe some nice weather outdoor firesides.

[byu71]

but I disagree when you say Utah football being better helps BYU.

I also disagree. Didn't Bronco one time say we will win all the in-state battles? Maybe that is just internet legend.

Anyway Jake Murphy and Chase Hansen are at Utah. The tight end from yesteryear Handy's kid is going to Utah. Johnny Harline said under the present situation, he would consider Utah more than he did.

My nephew who plays for Lone Peak, not being recruited, has been to all the BYU camps, has photo's of players when he was younger. My brother had players over to his house all the time hanging out with this kid. This year he does homework instead of watching games.

[Paperback Writer]

BYU will be fine, but I disagree when you say Utah football being better helps BYU. It sure didn't help Utah from the mid-70s through Fassel, although there were spurts, but nothing that was sustained. The "incentive" factor that you mentioned eventually came into play for Utah, but there are still countless examples of Utah stubbing its toe through the fault of no one else during that time as well.

Good point. But as you point out - all that self inflicted toe-stubbing along the way was no else's fault. It probably would still have occurred even if BYU was a mediocre team during that time. I wonder if Utah would be where it is today if not for BYU's earlier success. Competition is always a good thing even if it gets to be one-sided for a time. Because change is continuous; especially in a game where every team loses its players every 3-5 years.

[Paperback Writer]

I also disagree. Didn't Bronco one time say we will win all the in-state battles? Maybe that is just internet legend.

Anyway Jake Murphy and Chase Hansen are at Utah. The tight end from yesteryear Handy's kid is going to Utah. Johnny Harline said under the present situation, he would consider Utah more than he did.

With all due respect byu71, take off your bifocals for a moment and look through a pair of binoculars. BYU is a national university; only about a third of the student body is from Utah. Recruiting at any university with a competitive football team is a nationwide enterprise. And Utah is hardly a hotbed of prep football talent.

postscript:
Sorry about the bifocals crack. You may not even need them and I have recently had to resort to them to read fine print. Also, don't want to knock Utah prep football. Utah does well considering its population and demographics and Nebraska has signed some Utah talent over the years. At the same time, I live in a hotbed of prep football talent.

But my point is, neither Utah or BYU would be very competitive if it had to rely solely on in-state talent. And a national university like BYU should be able to afford losing some in-state recruiting battles to Utah.

[byu71]

With all due respect byu71, take off your bifocals for a moment and look through a pair of binoculars. BYU is a national university; only about a third of the student body is from Utah. Recruiting at any university with a competitive football team is a nationwide enterprise. And Utah is hardly a hotbed of prep football talent.

postscript:
Sorry about the bifocals crack. You may not even need them and I have recently had to resort to them to read fine print. Also, don't want to knock Utah prep football. Utah does well considering its population and demographics and Nebraska has signed some Utah talent over the years. At the same time, I live in a hotbed of prep football talent.

But my point is, neither Utah or BYU would be very competitive if it had to rely solely on in-state talent. And a national university like BYU should be able to afford losing some in-state recruiting battles to Utah.

No problem, I use them and also senior diapers on occasion.

I also agree the national recruiting stage is important. What I was indicating was a "piece" of evidence that would support Utah's ascendency vs BYU.

BYU still wins big on out of state LDS kids.

[The_Douger]

Why do we expect BYU to be better than that? We're severely limited with whom we can recruit and with who can coach our team. I suppose it's possible that we might eventually have a team that cracks the top 10, but that's not who we are.

I think we can be better than we are right now, but not that much better. One thing I would like to see, though, is an upgrade in coaching...Not Bronco, so much, but the other coaches. I don't know good of an X's and O's coach LaVell was, but he had a ton of coaches under him that went on to have very successful careers at other places. That doesn't happen so much any more. The head coach is the only one that needs to be LDS, so let's at least get blue-chip position coaches and coordinators.

I expect them to do better because as an independent you really only have a few games to measure yourself by each year. There's no conference chase. Other teams upsets, wins, and losses don't matter because they don't affect your conference standing. So, there's only a few real litmus tests each year, and we're failing every single one.

If Bronco doesn't want the fans to think big, then he needs to stop with the national championship talk. I tempered my expectations this year quite a bit, and I've planned on losses to all four decent road teams we face, and possibly in one of the teams we face at home as well. I expect we'll lose to Oregon State or Utah State.

Everyone was pretty pissed that Jay Drew was saying 7-5 for us.

At this point that seems like the high water mark, and that's not good enough to me. Not with this defense.

[OSUCougar]

I'm done with this thread. The stench of defeatism is unbearable.

And there was much rejoicing!!!

[OSUCougar]

Why do we expect BYU to be better than that? We're severely limited with whom we can recruit and with who can coach our team. I suppose it's possible that we might eventually have a team that cracks the top 10, but that's not who we are.

I think we can be better than we are right now, but not that much better. One thing I would like to see, though, is an upgrade in coaching...Not Bronco, so much, but the other coaches. I don't know good of an X's and O's coach LaVell was, but he had a ton of coaches under him that went on to have very successful careers at other places. That doesn't happen so much any more. The head coach is the only one that needs to be LDS, so let's at least get blue-chip position coaches and coordinators.

Agreed. Bronco can go do his firesides and pass out Book of Mormons and let his coordinators prepare for the next opponent.