5 Star Players and BYU

[Color Me Badd Fan]

But the point is what's the connection between Beck, Hall and Nelson? All mostly unheralded 2** (maybe one in the mix was a 3* but point is none were highly sought after) recruits. Their question is not going to be can Doman coach a QB to success -- clearly he can. Their question is can he coach the type of recruit that Tanner is to success? Can BYU make that happen? And that's exactly where your numbers become a concern for them. Even going beyond the Doman/Bronco years, BYU seemingly hasn't had success with a blue-chip caliber QB prospect in a really long time. Certainly that must worry them.

Ben Ols*n transferred mostly because of the Crowton circus and he was coming home to a completely unfamiliar coaching staff. Jake Heaps was given the chance to start and succeed and responded by throwing groundballs to his receivers (but only in the flat) and never, under any circumstances, throwing a pass into the middle half of the field.

I think it's logical to say that if someone can coach up a 2 or 3 star recruit, one can coach up a 5 star recruit. As opposed to 2 or 3 stars vs. 5 stars, the more important thing to consider is whether Doman can coach someone with Mangum's skill set or whether Doman is better with QBs with a different skill set.

[MarkGrace]

Ben Ols*n transferred mostly because of the Crowton circus and he was coming home to a completely unfamiliar coaching staff. Jake Heaps was given the chance to start and succeed and responded by throwing groundballs to his receivers (but only in the flat) and never, under any circumstances, throwing a pass into the middle half of the field.

I think it's logical to say that if someone can coach up a 2 or 3 star recruit, one can coach up a 5 star recruit.

That's all fair enough, but regardless of the circumstances, it's going to be hard to argue given that every blue-chip QB in recent memory has failed while other guys have shined.

I'm not sure how you'd define blue chip, but we've seen Berry, Ols*n, Heaps and Lark all flop. Meanwhile, our last three QB's have been Nelson, Hall, Beck, and before that the last good one was Doman himself (again in the mold of unheralded recruit).

As opposed to 2 or 3 stars vs. 5 stars, the more important thing to consider is whether Doman can coach someone with Mangum's skill set or whether Doman is better with QBs with a different skill set.

Also fair, but again, doesn't change the the fact that what has transpired so far doesn't look good and has to be cause for concern if you're in their shoes.

[MartyFunkhouser]

Mangum should also be worrying about the fact that his future coach hates talented players and prefers the football equivalents of David Eckstein. How else can you explain KVN not starting or Travis Uale seeing the field.

[Pelado]

As opposed to 2 or 3 stars vs. 5 stars, the more important thing to consider is whether Doman can coach someone with Mangum's skill set or whether Doman is better with QBs with a different skill set.

This would also be the biggest question I would have. It's obvious that Doman has had successful quarterbacks. Each of the last two starting QB's to graduate from BYU have started games in the NFL. It's not obvious how much credit for that goes to Doman. However, if Tanner's goal is an NFL career, there are worse places to go.

[Eddie]

I think what ya'll are forgetting is that ALL of these kids - and in particular highly recruited athletes - think that they are the exception.

Sure - other kids hit a wall or flop...but I won't.

Sure - other kids reach their peak in high school...but I won't.

Sure - other kids get beaten out by other players at their position in college...but I won't.


I think the bigger issue is being able to convince the kid to walk a fine line (without seeming to imply that this refers to Heaps) between being confident and humble/coachable. Does he understand that he's going to have to work his tail off, because there are other players - who may even have less talent - who are willing to do that?

And sometimes working hard can overcome talent discrepancies. However - the if the kid with talent works just as hard as (or harder than) the kid without it...well, how do you suppose that is going to end?

I do think you have to tell a player up front that they can compete to start right away. But I think you also tell them that starting right away doesn't tend to work well for freshmen, and while the decision hasn't been made - it may benefit them to RS a year and maybe even take a year as a backup.

In some ways - I think the Heaps thing has been OK in that players learn that they have to perform to keep their position, and they have to be ready to play in case the person in front of them can't perform. I know folks will say you have to treat QB's differently - but I think there are also some similarities.

[il Padrino Ute]

Mangum should also be worrying about the fact that his future coach hates talented players and prefers the football equivalents of David Eckstein. How else can you explain KVN not starting or Travis Uale seeing the field.

Still having difficulty coming to grips with Eckstein having a ring and being named MVP for the '06 World Series, eh?

[byu71]

If I were Mangum I would be careful the questions I was going to ask. Remember, athletes recruit BYU not the other way around. If he asks the wrong questions, he could get his offer jerked.

[Tone Loc]

Mangum should also be worrying about the fact that his future coach hates talented players and prefers the football equivalents of David Eckstein. How else can you explain KVN not starting or Travis Uale seeing the field.

Maybe if Mangum volunteers on special teams and promises to never wear a green jersey Bronco will fall in love with him too.

I just wonder if there is any room left in Bronco's heart thanks to Riles.