5 Star Players and BYU

[Viking]

I don't know that I would be shocked. I watched Jake quite a few times in HS and he always moved fine.

[YOUTUBE]1zcVRfzETMQ[/YOUTUBE]

At about the minute mark he takes off on a designed run. Obviously it's against HS and he doesn't have the same burst as a guy like Riley, but I don't remember him being half as plodding in HS as he seemed as BYU.

3A ball, Gracie? Are you fucking serious? I respect the hell out of you, but 3A ball is bush league.

[MarkGrace]

3A ball, Gracie? Are you fucking serious? I respect the hell out of you, but 3A ball is bush league.

Vik, what exactly are you going for with this 3A ball stuff? I'm not sure I understand.

[Hsaru]

Vik, what exactly are you going for with this 3A ball stuff? I'm not sure I understand.

It's part of his storyline of Jake being an overrated scrub who was never good at any point and feasted on teams with 5'4 corners in 3A.

[MarkGrace]

It's part of his storyline of Jake being an overrated scrub who was never good at any point and feasted on teams with 5'4 corners in 3A.

If that's the case, then I guess I don't agree. Skyline is 4A, which is the biggest classification in WA state. Where else are they supposed to go? I don't know if they were 4A the whole time Heaps was there, but they were his Sr. year. And even outside of that, several of the best programs in the state (O'Dea, Bellevue, etc.) are in the 3A division (same goes for hoop here). He played against the best the area has to offer, so I'm not sure what the complaint is or what else he was supposes to do. Beyond that, you don't get to the point he did as a recruit based solely on his school production. It's about evaluations, tools, camps, etc.

[smokymountainrain]

If that's the case, then I guess I don't agree. Skyline is 4A, which is the biggest classification in WA state. Where else are they supposed to go? I don't know if they were 4A the whole time Heaps was there, but they were his Sr. year. And even outside of that, several of the best programs in the state (O'Dea, Bellevue, etc.) are in the 3A division (same goes for hoop here). He played against the best the area has to offer, so I'm not sure what the complaint is or what else he was supposes to do. Beyond that, you don't get to the point he did as a recruit based solely on his school production. It's about evaluations, tools, camps, etc.

Bingo.

I've mostly disagreed with you about Heaps and Viking and I have tended to be on the same side of the Heaps v Nelson discussion, but it's obvious Viking has no clue about Washington High School football. The 4A schools might be a little bit deeper, but for the most part the top 3A schools are equal and in many cases better than the top 4A schools. Either way, as you mentioned Heaps played against the best schools every year he was at Skyline. Viking's argument works for Utah, and perhaps Texas, but in regard to the state of Washington he's only demonstrating his ignorance.

[Donuthole]

Bingo.

I've mostly disagreed with you about Heaps and Viking and I have tended to be on the same side of the Heaps v Nelson discussion, but it's obvious Viking has no clue about Washington High School football. The 4A schools might be a little bit deeper, but for the most part the top 3A schools are equal and in many cases better than the top 4A schools. Either way, as you mentioned Heaps played against the best schools every year he was at Skyline. Viking's argument works for Utah, and perhaps Texas, but in regard to the state of Washington he's only demonstrating his ignorance.

Considering Riley played 3A ball in Utah, i don't think Viking's argument works for Utah, either.

[Art Vandelay]

I think Texas goes up to something like 6A, and doesn't Utah go to 5A? However, the classification is irrelevant since it is merely a label designated by each state. If makes zero sense to try and compare classifications across statelines.

Gracie is right, WA only goes to 4A, which is where Skyline has been since 2004. They've won six state championships since they opened in 1997. In all honesty, they probably would have 2 or 3 less if they were playing down and had to face Bellevue (which has won something like 11 of the last 14).

Regardless, Jake was a great HS football player and will hopefully be a great college and pro player. Unfortunately, it won't be with BYU.

[MarkGrace]

I think Texas goes up to something like 6A and doesn't Utah go to 5A. However, the classification is irrelevant since it is merely a label designated by each state. If makes zero sense to try and compare classifications across statelines.

And does it say anything about the largest classification of football in Texas that Frodo was all-state and hasn't done jack in college? What about Ols*n in CA? Of course not. Kids make it or they don't for a variety of reasons, and I don't think you can draw many conclusions based on their classification of HS play.

That said, I hold no ill will toward Viking for his difference of opinion with me on this one. The fact that he can go out and watch well-tanned buns float across the sand on a perfect Brazilian beach and forget about this mess does indeed make me jealous.

[Jarid in Cedar]

And does it say anything about the largest classification of football in Texas that Frodo was all-state and hasn't done jack in college? .

Pardon my ignorance, but who is frodo?

[falafel]

Pardon my ignorance, but who is frodo?

I had to ask too. Its McKay Jacobson.

[Viking]

If that's the case, then I guess I don't agree. Skyline is 4A, which is the biggest classification in WA state. Where else are they supposed to go? I don't know if they were 4A the whole time Heaps was there, but they were his Sr. year. And even outside of that, several of the best programs in the state (O'Dea, Bellevue, etc.) are in the 3A division (same goes for hoop here). He played against the best the area has to offer, so I'm not sure what the complaint is or what else he was supposes to do. Beyond that, you don't get to the point he did as a recruit based solely on his school production. It's about evaluations, tools, camps, etc.

Oh, I thought the video said he was 3A.

I only follow HS football where it's played correctly: Texas.

[Shaka]

Considering Riley played 3A ball in Utah, i don't think Viking's argument works for Utah, either.

One interesting thing about Riley is his Logan High team was competitive with the best 5A teams in the state. I got my first wind of the kid when he led LHS to victory over eventual 5A state champ Skyline.

[Paperback Writer]

I think Texas goes up to something like 6A, ..

Texas prep football only goes up to class 5A.

And does it say anything about the largest classification of football in Texas that Frodo was all-state and hasn't done jack in college? What about Ols*n in CA? Of course not. Kids make it or they don't for a variety of reasons, and I don't think you can draw many conclusions based on their classification of HS play.

If "Frodo" is considered a bust "that hasn't done jack in college", I don't want to know what some might think of scholarship players who fail to make the depth chart. It has a lot to do with expectations. I watched Frodo play at South Lake Carroll HS and thought BYU was a good choice for him. Wasn't surprised that he contributed as a Freshman. But I didn't expect him to repeat his senior year HS stats at BYU (100 receptions/1,600 yds/20 TDs). Although I did expect him to have better stats his senior year. But that has as much to do with Apo and Hoffman than "Frodo".

Anyway, I agree its kind of silly to compare classifications across states because there are differences. Still one can draw some conclusions based on HS classification. For example, there are 5A HS in Texas with > 5K students and football is big in Texas. So one has to be fairly talented to play and excel at that level. However, as previously stated, that doesn't guarantee future success - players excel, contribute, or don't play for a variety of reasons (like taking two years off to serve a mission).

[KillerDog]

Yeah, just the ones that were strongly considering coming here. I could think of Ngata (who committed) and Te'o (who most believed was headed here). Not sure if I'm missing any.



Really? I know Heaps was a 4-star on Rivals, but he was also their top-rated pro-style QB. What is Mangum rated?

Mangum is interesting. Can he run well enough for Doman to really use him or should he start reconsidering BYU.

[MarkGrace]

Mangum is interesting. Can he run well enough for Doman to really use him or should he start reconsidering BYU.

The family apparently has a meeting with Mangum coming up. If I'm him, I'm running in the opposite direction. BYU hasn't made a highly touted recruit work at the position in a really long time.