Pac 12 coaches

[creekster]

A thread about PAC 12 coaches is not dumb. An example of a dumb thread is one that asks Utefans if they'd rather be playing BYU in November than playing a PAC 12 schedule. The problem here is not that the subject matter is inherently dumb.

We've become like married people who can't stand to be in the same room.

so if we stay out of your threads will you stay out of our threads?

[Top Ute]

So everything that Kiffin has had to deal with at USC is a walk in the park compared to...uh...wait...what exactly is some opposition that Whit has faced that wasn't outside his power to control? I don't think this is even an argument (which is probably why SeattleUte is avoiding it).

By the way, since when has Whit rescued the Ute's season? IS .500 really any good when you consider who they have beat? The only reason they are even teased about sniffing the conference champ game is for two reasons:

1) other teams are losing
2) USC is ineligible

Utah is 7-4. I have no idea where you're getting .500 from. Given how Utah lost to Cal, 5-7 or worse was a real possibility.

Utah is winning games in a pass-heavy conference with possibly the worst passing attack this conference has ever seen. But maybe you've got something from the offseason where you say Utah could still win 8-9 games even if it lost its starting QB for the season less than a third of the way in.

What's it matter? We could rep the South, beat Oregon and you'd still find a way to dismiss it.

[SloanHater]

I wholeheartedly agree . Kyle is the best.

If harbaugh was still around I'd have to give him the nod. Monte deserves more credit than lane. Knight deserves more credit than Kelly.

What I love most about Kyle is that his teams never throw in the towel. This year has been eerily reminiscent of 2007 and I see great things happening next year.

[USCoug]

Utah is 7-4. I have no idea where you're getting .500 from. Given how Utah lost to Cal, 5-7 or worse was a real possibility.

Utah is winning games in a pass-heavy conference with possibly the worst passing attack this conference has ever seen. But maybe you've got something from the offseason where you say Utah could still win 8-9 games even if it lost its starting QB for the season less than a third of the way in.

What's it matter? We could rep the South, beat Oregon and you'd still find a way to dismiss it.

Utah has won 4 games in their conference, and they have lost 4. That equals a .500 record in conference play which should be the only thing that matters.

No, I don't have something from the offseason saying that Utah could do better without Wynn (which they should have recruited better for, hence this is on Whit's shoulders and not adversity that's outside his control). My claim was that Lane has faced a lot of adversity compared to other coaches in the PAC that was OUTSIDE his control and now fields one of the best teams in the conference. Don't get off topic about touting Utah's accomplishments when this is a discussion on adversity that coaches are facing that they have ZERO control over (like sanctions, etc.). Let's compare things instead? Still, none have not properly answered my post.

What's it matter? You'll still pound your chest and claim that Utah is the greatest program for all they've overcome, when they really haven't overcome anything big yet. No, I won't dismiss it. Because unlike you, I give credit where credit is due.

[il Padrino Ute]

Utah has won 4 games in their conference, and they have lost 4. That equals a .500 record in conference play which should be the only thing that matters.

No, I don't have something from the offseason saying that Utah could do better without Wynn (which they should have recruited better for, hence this is on Whit's shoulders and not adversity that's outside his control). My claim was that Lane has faced a lot of adversity compared to other coaches in the PAC that was OUTSIDE his control and now fields one of the best teams in the conference. Don't get off topic about touting Utah's accomplishments when this is a discussion on adversity that coaches are facing that they have ZERO control over (like sanctions, etc.). Let's compare things instead? Still, none have not properly answered my post.

What's it matter? You'll still pound your chest and claim that Utah is the greatest program for all they've overcome, when they really haven't overcome anything big yet. No, I won't dismiss it. Because unlike you, I give credit where credit is due.

I would have thought Kiffin would feel comfortable coaching a program that got itself in trouble for cheating.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

I wholeheartedly agree . Kyle is the best.

If harbaugh was still around I'd have to give him the nod. Monte deserves more credit than lane. Knight deserves more credit than Kelly.

What I love most about Kyle is that his teams never throw in the towel. This year has been eerily reminiscent of 2007 and I see great things happening next year.

So why wasn't Bellotti winning the conference and being in the NC discussion? Phil opened the check book up almost 20 years ago. Kelly is a good coach, he needs to figure some things out still but is pretty good for 3 years in.

[Jarid in Cedar]

Utah has won 4 games in their conference, and they have lost 4. That equals a .500 record in conference play which should be the only thing that matters.

No, I don't have something from the offseason saying that Utah could do better without Wynn (which they should have recruited better for, hence this is on Whit's shoulders and not adversity that's outside his control). My claim was that Lane has faced a lot of adversity compared to other coaches in the PAC that was OUTSIDE his control and now fields one of the best teams in the conference. Don't get off topic about touting Utah's accomplishments when this is a discussion on adversity that coaches are facing that they have ZERO control over (like sanctions, etc.). Let's compare things instead? Still, none have not properly answered my post.

What's it matter? You'll still pound your chest and claim that Utah is the greatest program for all they've overcome, when they really haven't overcome anything big yet. No, I won't dismiss it. Because unlike you, I give credit where credit is due.

Coaching gets as much credit for the 4 conference losses as they do for the 4 game winning streak. It has been a learning curve for them as well.

I am not much into hyperbole, but I will say that I am pleased that the coaches and players did not fold up after the Cal game. This is a program that has not faced a ton of adversity the last few years(and frankly they handled adversity quite poorly last year, IMO). SO it was good to see them respond well, regardless of the level of competition. As I sat at AT&T Park, I was trying to wrap my mind around the fact that there was a real possibility that we could finish 4-8, 5-7.

I don't think that the coaches are giving themselves high fives for the net balance of the season. They have higher goals and ambitions than 7-4 and 0.500 in conference. I do think they are pleased that the players have responded to adversity and can finish what can be considered a successful season. The back end about this season has been about building for next year. This team needed to get bowl eligible simply for the additional practice. Considering where I sat 10/22/11, the fact that we have a punchers chance to play in the CCG is a bonus.

[Top Ute]

So why wasn't Bellotti winning the conference and being in the NC discussion? Phil opened the check book up almost 20 years ago. Kelly is a good coach, he needs to figure some things out still but is pretty good for 3 years in.

Dennis Dixon's bad knee, for starters ...

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

Dennis Dixon's bad knee, for starters ...

You realize Chip was the OC that year?

Bellotti was a solid coach and advanced Oregon football, Kelly has taken the program a step farther. Perhaps the step Oregon has taken now is the last one, perhaps Chip co tinues to evolve and one day the Ducks hoist a crystal football. I have no idea, but to say Knight deserves as much credit as Kelly is a silly statement.

[Portland Ute]

You realize Chip was the OC that year?

Bellotti was a solid coach and advanced Oregon football, Kelly has taken the program a step farther. Perhaps the step Oregon has taken now is the last one, perhaps Chip co tinues to evolve and one day the Ducks hoist a crystal football. I have no idea, but to say Knight deserves as much credit as Kelly is a silly statement.

Knight deserves more credit.

Without Knight, Oregon is still the equivalent of Arizona State. It's the same deal with T. Boone Pickens and OkSU.

Neither of those programs would be where they are today, regardless of who is coaching, without the billionaires backing them with dump trucks filled with gold.

Both schools' facilities were dumps before their wealthy boosters diverted the flow of cash into improvements.

With the facilities, the recruiting becomes a lot easier. For Oregon, you add the close ties to Nike and the never ending parade of what the athletes consider to be awesome updates/changes in the uniforms and helmets and you have instant interest from recruits.

Without the facilities and the uniforms, Oregon isn't where it is today with or without Kelly. Kelly is a great coach, but he isn't doing what he's doing without the athletes that he gets to Oregon because of all the sparkly things kids see on their recruiting trips.

Knight's money was a game-changer for Oregon.

I'm not criticizing. I'm envious. It's pretty awesome what he's done for Oregon Athletics. Walking around that campus and seeing the facilities is like being a the Disneyland of Athletics. Everything is perfectly maintained, perfectly manicured vegetation...clean...beautiful. Every detail is considered. It's awesome. Fans notice...and so do recruits.

[Flattop]

Yeah this is kind of funny.

Lane has been dealing with bowl bans, scholarship reductions, negative media outlets, biased polls, players transferring, etc. I'd argue that he has faced more adversity than whit lately.

Outside of motivation, bowl bans, negative media, and biased polls shouldn't affect what happens on the field. Give Lane some credit, he's been able to motivate his players.

Losing scholarships is a big deal. Losing players to transfer or to injury makes no difference, the player is gone. With injury you might get the player back, but other than that it's a push.

USC has been the top dog in the Pac for a number of years. They have been so high that even after being cut down a little they are still better than much of the league and can still compete with the top teams. While they lost scholarships and players to transfer, the Trojans had enough depth to stay competitive.

Utah has been a good non-BCS program that rose up on two occasions to make some noise. But the last time they made some noise was a few years ago and they have struggled to keep up with the great non-BCS teams TCU and BSU since then.

In jumping into a BCS conference this year, it turned out that the weekly grind really was a factor for Utah, a team that at best has only had one BCS quality recruiting class. Utah doesn't have the depth USC does and the loss of several players to injury has been a big deal.

Whittingham has been criticized for losing, in his first two and a half years as head coach, to teams he shouldn't have lost to. So while Utah's schedule this year was front loaded and has lightened up over the second half of the season, Kyle should get credit for beating the teams he is supposed to beat, despite the adversity his team has experienced.

[Donuthole]

Whittingham is Best: A 5-paragraph essay by Flattop

[Kyle Whittingham is the best coach in the Pac-12, and has shown it throughout the course of this year. He has overcome as much adversity as any coach in the conference while still producing a team in contention for a Pac-12 title.]

Utah has been a good non-BCS program that rose up on two occasions to make some noise. But the last time they made some noise was a few years ago and they have struggled to keep up with the great non-BCS teams TCU and BSU since then. In jumping into a BCS conference this year, it turned out that the weekly grind really was a factor for Utah, a team that at best has only had one BCS quality recruiting class. [This resulted in the loss of several key players to injury.] Utah doesn't have the depth that some of the other Pac-12 programs do, so losing these players to injury has been a big deal.

[Some might argue that Lane Kiffin, USC's head coach, is the best coach in the conference. Lane Kiffin, has had to deal with the negative effects of a program on probation.] Kiffin should be given some credit for being able to motivate his players and winning in spite of the probation. However, bowl bans, negative media, and biased polls shouldn't affect what happens on the field. True, losing scholarships is a big deal, but there is really no difference between losing players to transfer or to injury, as the player is gone. With injury you might get the player back, but other than that it's a push. [However,] USC has been the top dog in the PAC-12 for a number of years. They have been so high that even after being cut down a little they are still better than much of the league and can still compete with the top teams. While they lost scholarships and players to transfer, the Trojans had enough depth to stay competitive. [Whittingham did not have this luxury at Utah.]

In his first two and a half years as head coach, Whittingham has been criticized for losing to teams he shouldn't have. This year, Utah's schedule this year was front loaded and has lightened up over the second half of the season. [Utah took advantage of the weaker teams and has managed to become bowl eligible, despite the adversity the team has experienced due to injury. In fact, Utah is still alive for a chance to play in the Pac-12 championship game.]

[The adversity Utah has overcome is more significant than that overcome by USC. Whittingham, as Utah's coach, has helped the team overcome that adversity and has thembowl eligible with an outside chance at the Rose Bowl. In light of this, Whittingham has been the best coach in the Pac-12 this year.]

I added a couple sentences, moved your paragraphs around, and turned it into an essay for you. You can submit it in this year's CUF Reflections contest, where I'm sure it will be well-received.

[Flattop]

I added a couple sentences, moved your paragraphs around, and turned it into an essay for you. You can submit it in this year's CUF Reflections contest, where I'm sure it will be well-received.

Um, yeah, okay.

[U-Ute]

Um, yeah, okay.

Cut him a bit of slack. He started his Thanksgiving celebration early this week.

[Flattop]

Cut him a bit of slack. He started his Thanksgiving celebration early this week.

Apparently.