Was that a worst case scenario for our QB situation?

[Sizzle]

I don't want to pile on, but you're not doing much for yourself. Bad QB's generally put themselves in bad 3rd down distance situations. It's one of those defining characteristics of a bad QB.

Can be true a lot of the time. But it's tough to fault a QB for runs on first and second down that put them in 3rd and 7+ situations.

Heaps does deserve a lot of the blame for his 3rd and long situations though.

[CardiacCoug]

I'm on the Riley bandwagon, but honestly I think we still score 29 points (or more) with Jake at QB in this game.

[jay santos]

Can be true a lot of the time. But it's tough to fault a QB for runs on first and second down that put them in 3rd and 7+ situations.

Heaps does deserve a lot of the blame for his 3rd and long situations though.

Except that's not what's happening. Including last night when we rushed more than we passed, we have 197 rush attempts and 230 pass attempts. And some of those rushes are designed passes. And many of those rushes are in 3rd and 1 type situations.

[smokymountainrain]

Is it just me or does it seem like every time Nelson runs on third down, he gets it? He just really seems to have a nose for the first down marker. Also you rarely see him stopped for no gain when he runs. Despite his slight build, he never goes down on first contact and always falls forward. He's not explosive, in terms of being a big play runner, but is lights out in short yardage.

[Surfah]

Is it just me or does it seem like every time Nelson runs on third down, he gets it? He just really seems to have a nose for the first down marker. Also you rarely see him stopped for no gain when he runs. Despite his slight build, he never goes down on first contact and always falls forward. He's not explosive, in terms of being a big play runner, but is lights out in short yardage.

IIRC, in mildcat he only converted once all season.

[smokymountainrain]

IIRC, in mildcat he only converted once all season.

I'm referring to the last couple games when he's playing QB and the defense doesn't know exactly what is coming.

[Surfah]

I'm referring to the last couple games when he's playing QB and the defense doesn't know exactly what is coming.

Which concerns me with Riley. It took a half for SJSU to adjust. They won the second half.

[TripletDaddy]

Which concerns me with Riley. It took a half for SJSU to adjust. They won the second half.

I said last night at the game that we were seeing an SJSU team that spent the week prepping for 2 QBs. Oregon State is going to spend the week prepping for one.

Good luck diving headfirst every 6 or 7 snaps.

[smokymountainrain]

Which concerns me with Riley. It took a half for SJSU to adjust. They won the second half.

To clarify, I'm just referring to short yardage situations with Riley running the ball. I don't think they stopped him in the second half. That said, Doman didn't call his number nearly often enough in the second half, which is part of the reason SJSU won the second half.

[jay santos]

Which concerns me with Riley. It took a half for SJSU to adjust. They won the second half.

That's a good point. I think it's very possible what makes Riley look good is going to get bottled up fast with some coaching adjustments and preparation.

[Sizzle]

Except that's not what's happening. Including last night when we rushed more than we passed, we have 197 rush attempts and 230 pass attempts. And some of those rushes are designed passes. And many of those rushes are in 3rd and 1 type situations.

You're right. There have also been issues like dropped passes, bad snaps, late play calls (is this a QB issue or an OC issue or a combo of both?), guys lining up in the wrong spots and false starts as well that have put us in bad spots as well. Again, as I said in the first post, Heaps deserves a lot of the blame for putting the team in 3rd and long situations, but a lot of those issues are things outside of his control. Some of those are play calls, some of those have been mental mistakes and some of those absolutely have been Heaps fault.

People talk like the offense has done nothing with Heaps. That hasn't been the case. Against Utah State we moved the ball inside the 10 our first two drives against Utah State and three times within the 20 in the first half. Yes, I completely understand that we haven't came away with TDs in those situations where we need to, but a lot of that is not Heaps fault. There is no question that Riley adds a dimension to the run game that Heaps doesn't. The D has to guard all 11 in the run game when Riley is in. Not so much the case with Heaps. In the red zone, that makes a big difference.

I know I am coming across as a Heaps apologist, but the fact of the matter is I'm not impressed with either of them at this point. IMO, yesterdays result is essentially the same if we started Heaps or if we started Riley. I still think Heaps has more upside, and it isn't like he hasn't shown he can play in games. We saw it the last half of last year. It hasn't been shown this year yet though, and it is frustrating. But IMO Riley has his limitations. A team that is good enough to take away the run and make him throw has a very good chance at beating BYU. I don't think he is accurate enough to beat better than average coverage (FWIW, Heaps has not been this year either) but Heaps seems more likely to have or develop this ability.

It's not like there is a clear winner in my mind with either QB at this point in the season.

[smokymountainrain]

That's a good point. I think it's very possible what makes Riley look good is going to get bottled up fast with some coaching adjustments and preparation.

I thought it was more conservative, play not to lose, play calling in the second half than anything SJSU did to adjust to Nelson. Perhaps a little of both, but the play calling did get very conservative with that second half lead.

[Sizzle]

I thought it was more conservative, play not to lose, play calling in the second half than anything SJSU did to adjust to Nelson. Perhaps a little of both, but the play calling did get very conservative with that second half lead.

Yes, you do tend to simplify your play calling when the last drive of the first half and the first drive of the second both end in INTs.

[jay santos]

I thought it was more conservative, play not to lose, play calling in the second half than anything SJSU did to adjust to Nelson. Perhaps a little of both, but the play calling did get very conservative with that second half lead.

True, and the game was never in doubt. And Matthews had an easy drop that could have lead to another TD. And 36 points would have seemed like offensive fireworks compared to the rest of the season.

We need more data, but back to the initial question for the thread, absolutely no this is not worst case. It's more likely Nelson wins more games than Heaps the rest of the season. And even for long term, last night showed me enough to believe maybe even we win more games next year with Nelson than Heaps.

[Sizzle]

True, and the game was never in doubt. And Matthews had an easy drop that could have lead to another TD. And 36 points would have seemed like offensive fireworks compared to the rest of the season.

We need more data, but back to the initial question for the thread, absolutely no this is not worst case. It's more likely Nelson wins more games than Heaps the rest of the season. And even for long term, last night showed me enough to believe maybe even we win more games next year with Nelson than Heaps.

Out of curiosity, which games this year does BYU win with Nelson that they don't win with Heaps?