Nelson Bandwagon

[byu71]

However, you predicted Oregon State would get their fist win against BYU and even if the Beavers had whipped the Cougars on Saturday you still would have been wrong!

I am sooooo embarassed for both of us. You must have me mixed up with Seattle Ute. I never predicted any such thing. I never predict BYU will lose.

[Goatnapper'96]

He definitely is and I have come to think you need a QB like him to make up for deficiencies BYU has. His running and scrambling keeps the defense on edge and they can't just focus on the RB or receivers breaking free. They have to cover a lot longer.

A QB like Heaps fits better in a USC type team. Riley fits more with a BYU.

I will say this much, in my opinion I think a playmaking qb can really impact a college football game. It is a dimension that is just really difficult to account for at that level. I don't think OSU has a good defense but I don't think they suck and I don't think their talent is awful. From what I watched Riley Nelson pretty much had his way with OSU. Similar to Doman, I think he passes well enough to hurt teams and his athleticism is just enough that teams really struggle to account for everything BYU can do. It will not surprise me if BYU has its best offensive game against TCU that it has had since John Beck was at the Y.

I think that at the NFL level the talent on the defensive side of the ball is high enough that other than the DL, all the other defenders can cover the ground to stop a playmaking qb and it leads to injury. However, I have long felt it is a great equalizer at the college level where the talent is more watered down. If I had my choice for a qb type I would want one who is an adequate passer, such as Riley Nelson or Doman or Max Hall, but can also create on his own and is a genuine threat to run a qb draw. That is not to say that I don't think a pure pocket passer can also lead very good BYU offenses, just that given my choice I like the playmaker who looks gutsy and tough. It is my style, it is more exciting and I also think it is something that is just really difficult to prepare for and college teams, even ones with very good defenses, usually struggle with it.

[byu71]

I will say this much, in my opinion I think a playmaking qb can really impact a college football game. It is a dimension that is just really difficult to account for at that level. I don't think OSU has a good defense but I don't think they suck and I don't think their talent is awful. From what I watched Riley Nelson pretty much had his way with OSU. Similar to Doman, I think he passes well enough to hurt teams and his athleticism is just enough that teams really struggle to account for everything BYU can do. It will not surprise me if BYU has its best offensive game against TCU that it has had since John Beck was at the Y.

I think that at the NFL level the talent on the defensive side of the ball is high enough that other than the DL, all the other defenders can cover the ground to stop a playmaking qb and it leads to injury. However, I have long felt it is a great equalizer at the college level where the talent is more watered down. If I had my choice for a qb type I would want one who is an adequate passer, such as Riley Nelson or Doman or Max Hall, but can also create on his own and is a genuine threat to run a qb draw. That is not to say that I don't think a pure pocket passer can also lead very good BYU offenses, just that given my choice I like the playmaker who looks gutsy and tough. It is my style, it is more exciting and I also think it is something that is just really difficult to prepare for and college teams, even ones with very good defenses, usually struggle with it.

In the NFL the D lineman are so fast that a scrambling QB gets negated to some extent. Most of the great QB's do have the ability to dodge a rush and find open recievers. I think Jake had that, but for some reason appeared to have lost it.

Riley's ability will chew up the level of competition we are playing. TCU will be interesting. It would have been interesting to see Riley vs Texas and Mississippi.

Anyway, Riley has earned the spot. I don't know what Jake knows. I do know he came in here thinking highly of himself and a lot of colleges across the nation did too. That is why I think there is a good chance of him transferring. Rightly or wrongly he may think it was the coaching that messed him up.

[Goatnapper'96]

In the NFL the D lineman are so fast that a scrambling QB gets negated to some extent. Most of the great QB's do have the ability to dodge a rush and find open recievers. I think Jake had that, but for some reason appeared to have lost it.

Riley's ability will chew up the level of competition we are playing. TCU will be interesting. It would have been interesting to see Riley vs Texas and Mississippi.

Anyway, Riley has earned the spot. I don't know what Jake knows. I do know he came in here thinking highly of himself and a lot of colleges across the nation did too. That is why I think there is a good chance of him transferring. Rightly or wrongly he may think it was the coaching that messed him up.

Something messed up Jake and I believe coaching had something to do with it. However, I am not convinced he will transfer. As I read the tea leaves BYU will have few other options after Nelson's departure, not to mention his style of play can lead to injury. Even if Jake transfers he has to redshirt next year. His path to playing again as a starter is better, IMO, at BYU than anywhere else he can go. IMO, the BYU coaches have a vested interest in him getting another shot to show what he can do. I just don't think a RS freshman Taysom Hill is a real good idea to throw out to the dogs in 2013. Especially given Taysom's style of play. I still remember John Beck getting like 2-3 concussions the first few weeks of the 2003 season.

I still believe Jake has a bright future ahead of him at BYU and this setback should help him to regain his mojo. But you might notice I tend to be a real optimist!

[MarkGrace]

#BYU Bronco says QB job is not Riley's regardless of how he plays, it is still week to week.

Bronco: "Riley will be listed as starter for this week," but QB situation will be week-to-week

Weird.

[kccougar]

Weird.

Keeping Jake invested.

[byu71]

I still believe Jake has a bright future ahead of him at BYU and this setback should help him to regain his mojo. But you might notice I tend to be a real optimist!

I would love Jake to take the attitude, "I wasn't as good as I thought I was and need the work." If he feels like that he will be OK with the back up role and a red shirt.

If he, his family and some coaches with other schools feel BYU coaches F'd him over, he could be gone.

[Goatnapper'96]

Weird.

Haven't we all learned to just ignore Bronco?

This is what he is really saying:

Nelson is our starter until he proves himself inept or get hurts. However, we have a delicate situation with Heaps who we think can be good again someday if he pulls himself together.

[Goatnapper'96]

I would love Jake to take the attitude, "I wasn't as good as I thought I was and need the work." If he feels like that he will be OK with the back up role and a red shirt.

If he, his family and some coaches with other schools feel BYU coaches F'd him over, he could be gone.

There is little doubt in my mind that there is a feeling that Jake is not to blame amongst those with the most influence upon Jake. I just think that when the dust settles remaining at BYU is about as good an option as he will have- if he really wants some assurance that he will play again. Just looking at the timing of who is coming in and their circumstances leads to that conclusion.

I just can't see BYU having any choice but to turn the reins back over to him after Nelson. Then if Jake stumbles Taysom Hill will get his as a RS FR or maybee Munns will get to play as a SR. But I think BYU will have few options but to give it to Heaps. Now to be sure I expect Bronco to pretend it is an open competititon and all the tweets that will cause Cougarfans to pull string like no other will not be that blunt and obvious. But the reality is if Jake chooses to stay he will get another chance to be the man as a JR. If he gets benched again, he might as well transfer to ISU!

[byu71]

Haven't we all learned to just ignore Bronco?

I find I am a lot better off ignoring what Bronco says, what Wrubell says and what TH says.

I still watch the coaches show on Sunday nite though.

[Goatnapper'96]

I find I am a lot better off ignoring what Bronco says, what Wrubell says and what TH says.

I still watch the coaches show on Sunday nite though.

What Bronco says and what he does are often very different. Pay more attention to what he does.

[MarkGrace]

Something messed up Jake and I believe coaching had something to do with it. However, I am not convinced he will transfer. As I read the tea leaves BYU will have few other options after Nelson's departure, not to mention his style of play can lead to injury. Even if Jake transfers he has to redshirt next year. His path to playing again as a starter is better, IMO, at BYU than anywhere else he can go. IMO, the BYU coaches have a vested interest in him getting another shot to show what he can do. I just don't think a RS freshman Taysom Hill is a real good idea to throw out to the dogs in 2013. Especially given Taysom's style of play. I still remember John Beck getting like 2-3 concussions the first few weeks of the 2003 season.

I still believe Jake has a bright future ahead of him at BYU and this setback should help him to regain his mojo. But you might notice I tend to be a real optimist!

I agree with all these things and think his best option is to stay at BYU. It makes the most sense, the only real question is what Junkie mentioned regarding the relationship stuff and his view of how the situation has been handled. I'm sure a lot of the stuff we've talked about here (new OC, struggling through the tough part of the schedule and then getting to watch the backup run over a bunch of nobody's, etc., etc.) is weighing heavily on him and how "fair" he thinks things have been handled.

Maybe the redshirt year will help him out (Ox claims he's still younger than Detmer when Detmer completed his first pass at BYU -- is this right? Crazy), though I still tend to think his problems mostly need to be worked out on the field. My biggest fear is what happens in the case of a Riley injury. It happens one or two games in, then great, you pull his redshirt and he hasn't missed much. But what happens if Riley goes down 4, 5 or 6 games in? Do you pull Jake's? redshirt then? Do you go with a James Lark who has basically never seen the field to preserve Jake for a full two? The season goes down the shitter in a hurry, and this is one of the seasons were thought we were building toward that was going to be "special."

Anyway, Riley getting hurt is not a given, though for some reason it almost feels likely. The coaches even seem to hint toward this in a lot of their comments. A week ago Bronco was saying it would probably take more than one QB to get them through this season. I guess that's fairly true in a universal sense, but you can't help but watch Riley and feel his style of play is unsustainable.

[MarkGrace]

Keeping Jake invested.

That's the only thing I can think of.

[Shaka]

I've heard Bronco state that he doesn't like to give out redshirts until the season is over. I think this is one of the ways he can help cycle players out of the system who will never amount to much.

The following applies only if Riley stays healthy through this season and maybe the first two games next season.

In the case of Jake Bronco is going to have to commit to that redshirt year after this season and stick to it throughout the season. Lark, Munns, or Hill then becomes the backup. Might get real interesting if Hill can beat out Lark. I've seen some highlights and the kid is freakishly athletic for a QB. Well at least freakish for a kid from the 208.

You can tell in interviews that Bronco and Doman are treating the Heaps situation with kid gloves. They know there's a chance of a transfer and it's obviously in their best interest to head it off.

Now we get to see of which kind of mettle Jake is made. If he realizes that he needs work and trusts the coaches to get him to the next level then he stays. Sitting a year will do Jake a lot of good from a maturity perspective. I'd love to see how Jake does after having for two years like a classic BYU QB. I think we would get to see the Jake we all hoped for. No this plan is not going to get him into the NFL after his sophomore year but it may just be the best for him.

If Jake decides his predicament is everyone's fault but his own he transfers. He will be doing himself a disservice because he will never get into a BCS program that is on par with BYU. The bigs will take one look at this season's film and pass on him. The Washington State's of the world will want him. If he transfers then he was never really our kind of QB. He then becomes Ben Olsen.

I hope Jake sticks around and pushes through the adversity. I want to see him succeed and get his shot at the NFL. Even if he ends up not being NFL caliber I think the journey could really help him on a personal level.

[Flystripper]

Riley is still looking like a kid with not a lot of upside, but dang he's fun to watch.

He is reminding me more and more of Doman. Neither one could throw an out pattern from the opposite hash, but they have a way of moving the chains that is fun to watch. How dangerous would Nelson be with Staley in the backfield?