The Christmas Bowl

[Goatnapper'96]

Top 8, I agree. A BYU team that's viewed as a 2007 Hawaii sequel wouldn't.

That said, BYU's schedule is such that it would be a top 8 team if it went undefeated. But nothing's for sure unless it reaches Top 2, and no non-BCS team has ever attained that distinction in the regular season. Heck, Boise went undefeated in 2008 and had 2006 fresh in everyone's mind and went to the Poinsettia Bowl.

I agree but again, from a practicality perspective, if BYU is only as good as the 2007 Hawaii team they are not going to go undefeated and as such would not deserve a BCS Bowl. The schedules BYU will play will not allow it. I could see a year where BYU goes 11-1 and finishes 9th or so in BCS standings and gets left out and the metrosexual shrilling faithful will let 'er rip, whether or not I think that is fair would depend upon the circumstances at the time. But with the schedules BYU will play if they go undefeated I expect they will be in a BCS Bowl game.

I don't expect BYU to ever reach top 2.

[Top Ute]

I agree but again, from a practicality perspective, if BYU is only as good as the 2007 Hawaii team they are not going to go undefeated and as such would not deserve a BCS Bowl. The schedules BYU will play will not allow it. I could see a year where BYU goes 11-1 and finishes 9th or so in BCS standings and gets left out and the metrosexual shrilling faithful will let 'er rip, whether or not I think that is fair would depend upon the circumstances at the time. But with the schedules BYU will play if they go undefeated I expect they will be in a BCS Bowl game.

I don't expect BYU to ever reach top 2.

I mostly agree and wanted to make one other point: BYU has to find a way to balance out the schedule so it has some notable games late in the year. This year's schedule simply doesn't cut it in that regard -- BYU basically has a bye from Halloween onward, and the one game of note happens on a weekend where its results can easily be superseded by the results of other teams. And I don't know what's more damaging in terms of climbing the national perception ladder -- Idaho and NMSU, or the two byes that come in November.

[Goatnapper'96]

I mostly agree and wanted to make one other point: BYU has to find a way to balance out the schedule so it has some notable games late in the year. This year's schedule simply doesn't cut it in that regard -- BYU basically has a bye from Halloween onward, and the one game of note happens on a weekend where its results can easily be superseded by the results of other teams. And I don't know what's more damaging in terms of climbing the national perception ladder -- Idaho and NMSU, or the two byes that come in November.

As I have watched a few months of this independence unfold two issues appear to me: what you state and home schedule. I am not really sure how BYU can fix either situation. Time will tell and Mendenhall and Holmoe keep assuring the metrosexual shrilling faithful that patience is a virtue, but I don't see how those issues can be consistently addressed.

I forsee many schedules like this year's in future years. In some ways it ain't such a bad thing as one of BYU's historical issues is depth. My guess is that BYU is more competitive against good programs in September than it is November.

[Paperback Writer]

The Fiesta had never decided a national championship up until 1986, therefore, it is impossible to say it was on equal footing as the other four major bowls in 1984 -- unless you consider a matchup of conference also-rans as attractive as a matchup of conference champions. You're just wrong on this one. It was the Chik-Fil-A or Outback Bowl of the West Coast. And no one would ever try and put that bowl on the same level as the four major bowls then or today.

I'm not going to convince you on Flutie otherwise, but I know this: If I've seen Flutie's pass against Miami a thousand times. I might have seen 1984 BYU highlights/mentions maybe 50 times. The story, player, game, moment and personality of the 1984 season was Doug Flutie.

That said, if you can provide documentation from media of the day (I'll even help you out here -- the Deseret News' online archives go all the way back to the 1800s) that Cotton and/or Fiesta bowl reps watched BYU play, I'll readily concede it was a possibility that BYU could have played in either of those games. Without it, it's just wishful thinking that BYU could have been invited to one of those games.

Nebraska, Oklahoma, USC, and Penn St. were not "conference also-rans" in the late 1970's and early 1980's. They were teams playing for and winning national championships: Nebraska 1970-71; Oklahoma 1974-75; USC 1972, 1978; Penn St. 1982. All of those programs along with Ohio St., Michigan, and UCLA played in the Fiesta Bowl prior to 1986. Just consider who were the top teams in each conferenence in that era: PAC-10: USC and UCLA; Big 8: Oklahoma and Nebraska; Big 10: Ohio St. and Michigan; SWC: Texas and Arkansas; Ind: Notre Dame, Penn St., and Pittsburgh. The only major conference not to play in the Fiesta was the SEC and the only other non-SEC top programs not to play in the Fiesta prior to 1986 was Notre Dame and Texas. In short, the top programs of that era were playing in the Fiesta Bowl prior to 1986 (except for the SEC). That's a far better indicator of Bowl prestige than hosting a national championship which was very difficult to do prior to the BCS - it usually was a combination of Bowl games to decide a national champion.

That's a far different picture than a "Chick-Fil-A" or "Outback Bowl". That's playing on par with the Orange, Sugar, and Cotton Bowls. The Fiesta started playing on New Year's Day several years before 1986 - it was already prime time by then.

One "Hail Mary" pass by a 7-2 BC team against a 8-3 Miami team does not constitute a season. Like most seasons, the real story was who would claim the #1 ranking and BC was out of the equation after they lost to Penn St. in early November. One-by-one top ranked teams lost until BYU was left at the top and the story of 1984 was all about BYU and whether they deserved the #1 ranking. The Heisman trophy winner and Doug Flutie was secondary like all seasons when the top candidate is not on a team vying for the national championship.

As for your documentation challenge, why would there be any documentaion that Fiesta or Cotton Bowl representatives watched BYU play? If BYU went undefeated they were bound to play in the Holiday Bowl. If BYU lost, the Fiesta and Cotton Bowls wouldn't be interested. It's that simple.

It's not wishful thinking that a major Bowl - like the Fiesta Bowl in 1984 - would be interested in inviting the #1 team in the country. If not for the Holiday Bowl obligation in 1984; the Fiesta Bowl would have hosted the #1 ranked team two years earlier than when it did in 1986. And I would bet that the Fiesta is able to get a better opponent than an 8-3 UCLA team. Getting a 9-2 Nebraska team would have been a definite possibility.

[USUC]

Now I'm confused again. I thought that that the BCS rules stated that a non-AQ team that wins their conference and is in the top 12 has to be picked to go to a BCS bowl over an undefeated BYU in front of them in the rankings because they don't belong in a bowl game. Now ESPN's Andrea Adelson says that the highest ranked Non-AQ regardless if they are in a conference or not (she makes the statement at the 1:44 mark. Mind the "what BYU has to do to make it into the BCS championship" talk)

http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/po...-title-chances

Is she mistaken?

[USUC]

Now I'm confused again. I thought that that the BCS rules stated that a non-AQ team that wins their conference and is in the top 12 has to be picked to go to a BCS bowl over an undefeated BYU in front of them in the rankings because they don't belong in a bowl game. Now ESPN's Andrea Adelson says that the highest ranked Non-AQ regardless if they are in a conference or not (she makes the statement at the 1:44 mark. Mind the "what BYU has to do to make it into the BCS championship" talk)

http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/po...-title-chances

Is she mistaken?

Apparently she is mistaken

I misspoke on an earlier video on BYU's status in the BCS. The Cougars are eligible for a BCS game if they finish in the top 2 of the standings, landing them in the title game, or are selected as an at-large team. There is no automatic bid if they finish in the top 12.

http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/po...byu-in-mailbag