Deadspin takes on the Honor Code

[New Mexican Disaster]

I hate the honor code and I know for a fact that it is selectively enforced. But this article is a third rate hack job, with terrible sources and manipulated data.

[Art Vandelay]

5. I'm not sending my kids to BYU unless the HC is revamped.

I would guess you aren't the only one feels this ways. I don't know. I purposely avoided all discussion of Brandon and the HC office following his suspension. I didn't grow up around very many members of the church, and most of the ones I did were drinking and sexing as much, if not more than, their counterparts. I had very little in common with the few who did keep the standards. My wife's HS experience was very similar to mine. BYU was a refuge to me. It was the first place I had ever been where seemingly normal people, or at least similar to me, were living by the same standards that I chose live by.

Where I'm at now the church is much stronger, and all my kids have several close LDS friends. With that said, I have seen first hand what the typical freshman/sophomore college experience is like. I would much rather send my children to BYU, warts and all, than to anywhere else. Obviously, it will be their choice, but as PAC so aptly stated above- BYU (and the HC by default) is my SOB.

I've likely mentioned this before, if so I apologize for the redundancy. I've had two family members, within the last 7 years, give up D1 athletic scholarships at other universities to transfer to BYU, sans scholarship.

[Indy Coug]

I don't know if you'll get a story any more one-sided than this. Given the absolute absence of any opposing/differing viewpoints of the what happened with the players in question, I can only conclude that Darron Smith had no interest in accurately reporting what happened.

This is best highlighted by Ryan Kessman's account. His claims are beyond easily debunked. If Darron Smith couldn't even be bothered enough to get to the bottom of what really happened with Kessman, then why should we have any more confidence in anyone else's accounts included in the "article"?

It's pretty transparent that Darron Smith had a premise and went about trying to prove it with as little factual interference as possible.

[UtahDan]

I don't know if you'll get a story any more one-sided than this. Given the absolute absence of any opposing/differing viewpoints of the what happened with the players in question, I can only conclude that Darron Smith had no interest in accurately reporting what happened.

This is best highlighted by Ryan Kessman's account. His claims are beyond easily debunked. If Darron Smith couldn't even be bothered enough to get to the bottom of what really happened with Kessman, then why should we have any more confidence in anyone else's accounts included in the "article"?

It's pretty transparent that Darron Smith had a premise and went about trying to prove it with as little factual interference as possible.

Lots of people are asserting that it is an attack piece, which I think it one fair way to look at it. But so far no one is taking on the factual assertion that 80% of the players dismissed since 1993 have been black. I have no idea whether that is true, does anyone else? If it is true, I'm not sure what difference it makes how that fact gets presented. It speaks for itself at least on some level.

[cougjunkie]

Lots of people are asserting that it is an attack piece, which I think it one fair way to look at it. But so far no one is taking on the factual assertion that 80% of the players dismissed since 1993 have been black. I have no idea whether that is true, does anyone else? If it is true, I'm not sure what difference it makes how that fact gets presented. It speaks for itself at least on some level.

Darron Smith doesn't know if it was true in fact neither does Deadspin. They posted at the bottom of the article about the fact that they may have inaccuracies and would like people to help them set the record straight.

I don't care if it is true or not, in my opinion it reflects more poorly on african americans than it does the honor code office.

[LiveCoug]

Lots of people are asserting that it is an attack piece, which I think it one fair way to look at it. But so far no one is taking on the factual assertion that 80% of the players dismissed since 1993 have been black. I have no idea whether that is true, does anyone else? If it is true, I'm not sure what difference it makes how that fact gets presented. It speaks for itself at least on some level.

I'm sure it's true, but in no way do I think it should lead one to automatically assume BYU/HC is racist. No way, no how.

BYU is very unique and there are many factors associated with the breaking of the honor code and the handling of punishments that have absolutely nothing to do with race. The only common denominator is that most of the black athletes at BYU are non LDS and not accustomed in the least with the standards and practices of our culture.

[Flystripper]

I don't care if it is true or not, in my opinion it reflects more poorly on african americans than it does the honor code office.

really?

[cougjunkie]

really?

Group orgys? DUIs, drugs, rape, robbery, etc. These are major offenses and everyone of them ended up in the newspaper. We are not talking about a Brandon Davies situation where he did not break any laws or was accused of breaking any.

Any white kid that attends BYU who ends up in the newspaper for breaking a law would be punished the same way and has been.

You can take the kid out of the ghetto but can't take the ghetto out of the kid.

[UtahDan]

Darron Smith doesn't know if it was true in fact neither does Deadspin. They posted at the bottom of the article about the fact that they may have inaccuracies and would like people to help them set the record straight.

I don't care if it is true or not, in my opinion it reflects more poorly on african americans than it does the honor code office.

You don't mean that. If you do, you should never live this comment down.

[Surfah]

Lots of people are asserting that it is an attack piece, which I think it one fair way to look at it. But so far no one is taking on the factual assertion that 80% of the players dismissed since 1993 have been black. I have no idea whether that is true, does anyone else? If it is true, I'm not sure what difference it makes how that fact gets presented. It speaks for itself at least on some level.

When Gumbel and HBO did their show their numbers then were 17 out of 25. This was produced in 1999.

So at least BYU is consistent. I wonder what the percentage of non-LDS and LDS are?

These kids all violated the HC. They were all kicked out for these violations. This is not in question. The real issue IMO is whether or not these kids (non-LDS) are setup to fail. Is BYU doing enough to educate these student-athletes about the HC and do they have resources to protect them like Mormon student-athletes do (their Bishops)? One would readily say that Crowton certainly should have been more selective but his numbers aren't much different than what HBO revealed back in '99 when Lavell was still king. However, I still think these guys are full of shit when they say they wouldn't have come to BYU had they known. Known what? For many of these guys BYU was their best offer by far. They weren't going to turn that down. And funny enough, though these guys are deriding BYU, take a look at their Facebook pages and many of them all list BYU front and center? Why? Because like Stancil admitted when he said he wished he had a BYU degree, there is a lot more cache that comes with that than where they ended up.

[UtahDan]

When Gumbel and HBO did their show their numbers then were 17 out of 25. This was produced in 1999.

So at least BYU is consistent. I wonder what the percentage of non-LDS and LDS are?

These kids all violated the HC. They were all kicked out for these violations. This is not in question. The real issue IMO is whether or not these kids (non-LDS) are setup to fail. Is BYU doing enough to educate these student-athletes about the HC and do they have resources to protect them like Mormon student-athletes do (their Bishops)? One would readily say that Crowton certainly should have been more selective but his numbers aren't much different than what HBO revealed back in '99 when Lavell was still king. However, I still think these guys are full of shit when they say they wouldn't have come to BYU had they known? Known what? For many of these guys BYU was their best offer by far. They weren't going to turn that down. And funny enough, though these guys are deriding BYU, take a look at their Facebook pages and many of them all list BYU front and center? Why? Because like Stancil admitted when he said he wished he had a BYU degree, there is a lot more cache that comes with that than where they ended up.

I think that is a good take. I do think there is a real question as to whether the impact of the honor code, and the reality that your career can be over with one violation, is soft peddled. I also agree that many of them have some sense of that risk and go anyway because they don't have a better option. I guess my bottom line is that these statistics represent a failure of some kind, though I genuinely am not sure what the reason for them is.

[Hot Lunch]

This article is done in very poor taste. Does anyone expect anything less from Deadspin?

The honor code is what it is, players are fully aware of it when they sign up to play at BYU. The author went out and found players that were punished by it and had a bone to pick with the University. You could dig up 7 or 8 players to talk crap on the place they played ball at from every University and do an article like this but maybe on a different subject.

I don't know the details of the majority of the players that were interviewed for the article but knowing what I know about the Kessman situation, it isn't even close to the truth so that tells me that the other former players that are being interviewed are full of S*&! as well.

[LiveCoug]

I think that is a good take. I do think there is a real question as to whether the impact of the honor code, and the reality that your career can be over with one violation, is soft peddled. I also agree that many of them have some sense of that risk and go anyway because they don't have a better option. I guess my bottom line is that these statistics represent a failure of some kind, though I genuinely am not sure what the reason for them is.

A lot of these boot outs are for criminal behavior not just for having sex or drinking. That is an issue. White kids would get the boot too.

[Goatnapper'96]

Do you think the honor code is enforced equally among all races? I'm not sure how the author of the article or former athletes skill level matter in this accusation.

Many of the Davies' discussion on CUF was about how awful the HC is, yet now someone outside the inner circle points out how awful it is and all we want to do is discredit them?

This article claimed the HC is racist. That is a way of saying the HC is awful. I articulated that the HC is uneven in application because the punishment affixed to a high profile athlete includes the public airing of personal issues. While that is a way of saying the HC is awful it is not the same as saying it is racist.

[Art Vandelay]

This article is done in very poor taste. Does anyone expect anything less from Deadspin?

The honor code is what it is, players are fully aware of it when they sign up to play at BYU. The author went out and found players that were punished by it and had a bone to pick with the University. You could dig up 7 or 8 players to talk crap on the place they played ball at from every University and do an article like this but maybe on a different subject.

I don't know the details of the majority of the players that were interviewed for the article but knowing what I know about the Kessman situation, it isn't even close to the truth so that tells me that the other former players that are being interviewed are full of S*&! as well.

Welcome back, my friend.

Who knew, it would require the defense of all things holy and blue, to hasten your return.