2011 BYU Football Thread

[Hazzard]

I think the reality is that both Munns and Lark likely are not nearly as focussed on becoming a great qb as they were years ago. They are not dumb and they know that it is the Jake Heaps show.

This makes sense. Despite what most of us who would kill to play QB at BYU might think, once you realize you're not going to be the guy unless something weird happens, it's gotta be hard to wake up every morning day after day, week after week, month after month and care the way you did about it in high school. If you even cared about it that much in high school.

I also think that while Riley Nelson is no Jake Heaps his level of suckitude is often overemphasized, mostly due to some strange ire towards him because he was the one competing with the anointed one last year, and I think he is better than many give him credit. Package it all together with the reality that Riley does bring some different components that could be used to diversify things offensively and we have a scenario where Riley is likely the primary back up.

I'm not sure how much his level of suckitude is overemphasized, as I have a tendency -- unlike Bronco -- to tune out the dumb fans rather than be bitter about them, but I just think he kind of sucks for BYU's offense. I'm not interested in diversifying our offense. I'm interested in running a really simple, effective passing-oriented offense to perfection and I assumed Lark or Munns would be able to do that better than Nelson by now. If not, maybe, as you pointed out, Nelson is better than I thought and Lark and Munns care less than I thought.

Is Munns really changing positions?

[oxcoug]

I love the work Grace puts in on this thread. It's almost like his own blog or something. I wonder what would happen to MG's head if Thom Yorke was a scholarship football player at the Y (kicker, probably).

[Clark Addison]

Yes according to this:

Am I wrong in thinking that the second unit of LBs on this chart (Frazier, Stout, Jorgensen, Wagner) are as good as many first units we have thrown out there over the years?

[Goatnapper'96]

Am I wrong in thinking that the second unit of LBs on this chart (Frazier, Stout, Jorgensen, Wagner) are as good as many first units we have thrown out there over the years?

They are a really solid set of backups and I think Frazier, Stout and Jorgenson could probably start for many college programs. Wagner not so much, but he isn't bad for a backup.

I am interested to see what happens with Stout. A mission would be good for both him and the program, IMO. If he doesn't go on a mission, I hope they redshirt him. I think the ILB will be held down nicely by Kaveinga and Ogletree with adequate back ups in Jorgenson, Leing Wei and Tyler Beck. IMO if Stout doesn't start this year, redshirt him to extend his elgibility. He can be a primary back up next year and then start for two years after that with Spencer Hadley.

[Goatnapper'96]

Bronco says Fandango is a "special player" and "very talented."

I wonder if Fangupo will be the transfer whose performance will have the bigger impact. It sounds like he is really a capable player. If the OLBs cand safeties an do their job on the outside, BYU is going to be really good against the run. Mendenhall coached teams are always good against the run and this year he has a great mixture of brute strength and mass in the middle, and speedy and experienced playmaking OLBs on the edge. I have my concerns about the middle being exposed to the pass as the DL don't appear to have enough speed to get pressure on the qb and my prediction is Kaveinga is not real quick, so I hope that the OLBs can get the pressure the defense needs.

[cougjunkie]

Best LB corps since Kehl, Jensen, Poppinga and Nixon.

[Goatnapper'96]

Best LB corps since Kehl, Jensen, Poppinga and Nixon.

IIRC Poppinga was a 2nd team in that crew. The starters were Kehl, Jensen, Wagner and Nixon. The 2's were Bolden, Staffieri (backed up both ILB positions) and Poppinga. It was 2007 when Poppinga took Jensen's position at the MLB.

Both years BYU had stellar LB play. I agree that this years group could be that good.

[Coach McGuirk]

Best LB corps since Kehl, Jensen, Poppinga and Nixon.

I'll take that. Kehl and Nixon spent a lot of time in the backfield that year.

[cougjunkie]

IIRC Poppinga was a 2nd team in that crew. The starters were Kehl, Jensen, Wagner and Nixon. The 2's were Bolden, Staffieri (backed up both ILB positions) and Poppinga. It was 2007 when Poppinga took Jensen's position at the MLB.

Both years BYU had stellar LB play. I agree that this years group could be that good.

You are correct but I always thought Poppinga was the 4th best linebacker out of that group. That is why I put him there.

[San Juan Sun]

Best LB corps since Kehl, Jensen, Poppinga and Nixon.

I have blue goggles looking forward to next year. Let's judge the projected 2011 units against their best counterparts in the Mendenhall era:

QBs: (Beck/Hall, Ja. Beck, Gaskins 06-08) If Heaps continues to develop, I think he's close to Hall in intangibles with better tools. Riley is probably equal to Beck, both lefties with wheels. Overall, I think they are very close, provided Jake makes the jump, which I think he will. Edge: Draw

RBs: (Unga, Tonga 07) No one on the current roster is equal to Unga, or Tonga in his role for that matter. But the 2011 group has better all around depth, with more speed. I give the edge to the 07 guys, but think the cumulative production of the 2011 roster with be solid. Edge: 2007, but by less than you'd think

TEs: (Pitta, George 09) Pitta/George and it's not even close. But then again, the 2011 group was really young last year, were arguably mismanaged, and never had the consistency required to develop. Maybe someone seperates themselves this year. Maybe the incorporation of more traditional TE formations will help guys like Holt and Friel. Edge: 2009, by two orders of magnitude

WRs: (07, 08). Collie realized the talent that Apo/Hoffman have. The difference between the two is big. Maybe Cahoon and another year for the 2011 guys helps. I'm optimistic. Also, I don't think we can overlook Pitta's excellence allowing the WRs to do their thing. In contrast, the 2010 group got no help from the TEs, and probably looked worse for it. I think Doman's Machine will click on more cylinders for the 2011 team. Edge: 07,08. But 2011 will be decent to good.

OL: (06, 07) I'm no expert, but it seemed like our OL was best when we were transitioning from the Grimes to Weber eras. In retrospect, a lot of Max Hall's success as a soph was due to the OL. The 2011 group looks deep, with talented reserves. If they stay healthy, I expect them to be good. Edge: Draw

DL: (07, 08) Hola, Jorgensen, Tialavea, Dulan, Manumaleuna from those squads. IMO, the 2007 year was the best with Jorgensen and Tialavea being very productive. This year, we'll be very deep, especially at NT, which will be very important considering our schedule. Again, I'm no professional, so I could be way off base here. Edge: Too close to call for me

LBs: (2006) Kehl, Jensen, Staffieri, Nixon, Poppinga. Very, very nice list. This year might be more physically talented however, but not as experienced. Still Pendleton, KVN, Ogletree, Kavienga, Stout, etc is a nice group. It's just hard to take them against the best LB unit ever at BYU. Still, the 2011 group will be good, much, much better than 2009 for example. Edge: 2006

Secondary: (2009) I liked the Rich, Johnson, Logan, Bradley group. I think it was the most solid across all four positions. The 2006 group was good too. In 2011, we'll be a little less experienced at the safety positions, but the CBs should be good and all four positions with be athletic. If they develop, I'd take 2011. I'm thinking they will. Edge: 2011

Overall, with the exception of the TEs, each group IMO is within shouting distance of their best counterparts from the Mendenhall era. We are a little young, but project to be more athletic. If we avoid major injuries, we'll also have nice depth. It's a little unfair to take the 2011 team and their unrealized potential against units of old, in part because many of those units didn't look to be that great at the start of their respective seasons either. Plus, abscence makes the heart grow fonder and I'm maybe forgetting the warts of some of those units.

My forecast: the 2011 BYU team will be good, and has the chance to be very good if things gel. 2012 might be very, very special.

[cougjunkie]

I have blue goggles looking forward to next year. Let's judge the projected 2011 units against their best counterparts in the Mendenhall era:

QBs: (Beck/Hall, Ja. Beck, Gaskins 06-08) If Heaps continues to develop, I think he's close to Hall in intangibles with better tools. Riley is probably equal to Beck, both lefties with wheels. Overall, I think they are very close, provided Jake makes the jump, which I think he will. Edge: Draw

RBs: (Unga, Tonga 07) No one on the current roster is equal to Unga, or Tonga in his role for that matter. But the 2011 group has better all around depth, with more speed. I give the edge to the 07 guys, but think the cumulative production of the 2011 roster with be solid. Edge: 2007, but by less than you'd think

TEs: (Pitta, George 09) Pitta/George and it's not even close. But then again, the 2011 group was really young last year, were arguably mismanaged, and never had the consistency required to develop. Maybe someone seperates themselves this year. Maybe the incorporation of more traditional TE formations will help guys like Holt and Friel. Edge: 2009, by two orders of magnitude

WRs: (07, 08). Collie realized the talent that Apo/Hoffman have. The difference between the two is big. Maybe Cahoon and another year for the 2011 guys helps. I'm optimistic. Also, I don't think we can overlook Pitta's excellence allowing the WRs to do their thing. In contrast, the 2010 group got no help from the TEs, and probably looked worse for it. I think Doman's Machine will click on more cylinders for the 2011 team. Edge: 07,08. But 2011 will be decent to good.

OL: (06, 07) I'm no expert, but it seemed like our OL was best when we were transitioning from the Grimes to Weber eras. In retrospect, a lot of Max Hall's success as a soph was due to the OL. The 2011 group looks deep, with talented reserves. If they stay healthy, I expect them to be good. Edge: Draw

DL: (07, 08) Hola, Jorgensen, Tialavea, Dulan, Manumaleuna from those squads. IMO, the 2007 year was the best with Jorgensen and Tialavea being very productive. This year, we'll be very deep, especially at NT, which will be very important considering our schedule. Again, I'm no professional, so I could be way off base here. Edge: Too close to call for me

LBs: (2006) Kehl, Jensen, Staffieri, Nixon, Poppinga. Very, very nice list. This year might be more physically talented however, but not as experienced. Still Pendleton, KVN, Ogletree, Kavienga, Stout, etc is a nice group. It's just hard to take them against the best LB unit ever at BYU. Still, the 2011 group will be good, much, much better than 2009 for example. Edge: 2006

Secondary: (2009) I liked the Rich, Johnson, Logan, Bradley group. I think it was the most solid across all four positions. The 2006 group was good too. In 2011, we'll be a little less experienced at the safety positions, but the CBs should be good and all four positions with be athletic. If they develop, I'd take 2011. I'm thinking they will. Edge: 2011

Overall, with the exception of the TEs, each group IMO is within shouting distance of their best counterparts from the Mendenhall era. We are a little young, but project to be more athletic. If we avoid major injuries, we'll also have nice depth. It's a little unfair to take the 2011 team and their unrealized potential against units of old, in part because many of those units didn't look to be that great at the start of their respective seasons either. Plus, abscence makes the heart grow fonder and I'm maybe forgetting the warts of some of those units.

My forecast: the 2011 BYU team will be good, and has the chance to be very good if things gel. 2012 might be very, very special.

I think the O-line this year might be our best in a long time.

[CJF]

IIRC Poppinga was a 2nd team in that crew. The starters were Kehl, Jensen, Wagner and Nixon. The 2's were Bolden, Staffieri (backed up both ILB positions) and Poppinga. It was 2007 when Poppinga took Jensen's position at the MLB.

Both years BYU had stellar LB play. I agree that this years group could be that good.

I'm probably remembering wrong but I thought Poppinga was a DE in 06 and moved to full time LBer in 07.

[Goatnapper'96]

I think the O-line this year might be our best in a long time.

The only real difference between this O-line and the previous 6 is that instead of 4 marginal NFL caliber talents, this O-line has one legitimate NFL talent and then 4 marginal NFL caliber talents. Well I think Hansen and Braden are marginally NFL talents, it might be a stretch to include Terrance Brown in that crew and I guess the 5th starter is a wait out at this point.

I think the biggest difference on offense is two fold:

1.) BYU will have the most homerun type capability it has had in years.

2.) BYU will have a qb with the arm to go all over the field. I thought BYU missed that with Hall.

However, I still think we see many problems of youth for one more year. I don't expect an offense that is just deadly like the 2006 offense until next year. That offense trully only stopped itself. The offenses under Hall were good, but good defenses could stop them. I think with Heaps as the qb BYU will trend more towards Beck's led offense of 2006.

[Goatnapper'96]

I'm probably remembering wrong but I thought Poppinga was a DE in 06 and moved to full time LBer in 07.

You are right, you are remembering wrong. The older Poppinga played DE until being moved to OLB as a senior. Brady played OLB as a junior and then moved to ILB as a senior.

[CJF]

You are right, you are remembering wrong. The older Poppinga played DE until being moved to OLB as a senior. Brady played OLB as a junior and then moved to ILB as a senior.

Oops. Thanks. Don't know what I was thinking.