Would you recommend BYU to a non-LDS AA?

[Indy Coug]

I still believe the "scandal" itself wasn't what bit them in the ass, it was the overreaction to it. The precious fake image. As if the world is to believe college students never have parties and watch porn and have sex at BYU. Remember, none of these guys were found guilty by the courts and yet many fans still refer to them as rapists.

When players are charged with rape and go to trial for it, it's a serious problem; regardless if it's Florida State, Ohio State or BYU.

[HBCoug]

I still believe the "scandal" itself wasn't what bit them in the ass, it was the overreaction to it. The precious fake image. As if the world is to believe college students never have parties and watch porn and have sex at BYU. Remember, none of these guys were found guilty by the courts and yet many fans still refer to them as rapists.

Some of that has to do with what BJ Mathis and Karland Bennett have done with their lives since that rape trial. Agree with you regarding the "uphold the image at all costs" attitude.

[Surfah]

I would tell a prospective black, non-LDS, BYU athlete that he will get more action at BYU than he could anywhere else in the country.

[byu71]

When players are charged with rape and go to trial for it, it's a serious problem; regardless if it's Florida State, Ohio State or BYU.

I certainly didn't want to come across indicating it wasn't serious. It was serious for the girl and the players involved. Serious for coaches and fans.

It wasn't as serious as some made it out to be except from a PR and image perspective. I think the RM who killed his wife and left her in a garbage dump was a far more serious PR issue. Or the Bishop up in Logan who was charged with molesting little boys was in my opinion a far more serious PR problem. the guy at BYU who tried to kill his wife was more problematic to me.

[Indy Coug]

It wasn't as serious as some made it out to be except from a PR and image perspective. I think the RM who killed his wife and left her in a garbage dump was a far more serious PR issue.

And that got infinitely more national publicity than the rape trial of the football players.

[DapperDan]

Yes I did forget that one. But I think the Church embarrasses itself by kicking black players out more than black players embarrass the Church.

Agreed

[mUUser]

Sure, if he wants to be an accountant.

[Coach McGuirk]

Sure, if he wants to be an accountant.

36 posts before a Ute chimed in on a BYU thread. That's got to be some kind of record or something.

[shoganai]

Race has nothing to do with it. I wouldn't recommend BYU to any non-LDS athlete. I would be loathe to recommend BYU to an LDS athlete that is from a partially active or less active home or that isn't clearly a rule follower. BYU's system is too harsh for a kid with even the slightest amount of rebellion in him.

This idea that there is no forgiveness or room for error within the BYU system is false, from what I've heard.

Those I trust have given me the impression that very few athletes at BYU of any race or religion get in trouble publicly for a single Friday night fling with a girlfriend or an indiscrete coffee habit. The truth is that most cases of public suspension or expulsion involve either prolonged, unrepentant behaviors or felony law breaking.

[byu71]

This idea that there is no forgiveness or room for error within the BYU system is false, from what I've heard.

Those I trust have given me the impression that very few athletes at BYU of any race or religion get in trouble publicly for a single Friday night fling with a girlfriend or an indiscrete coffee habit. The truth is that most cases of public suspension or expulsion involve either prolonged, unrepentant behaviors or felony law breaking.

I actually think you are right. I think if Harvey had been lower profile, he would have been back. Then again if he were lower profile, the coaches may have not tried as hard to get him back.

Can't happen, but I long for the days of Lavell when this stuff was only rumored but couldn't be verified and the leaders in SLC didn't even know BYU had a football program.

[shoganai]

I actually think you are right. I think if Harvey had been lower profile, he would have been back. Then again if he were lower profile, the coaches may have not tried as hard to get him back.

Can't happen, but I long for the days of Lavell when this stuff was only rumored but couldn't be verified and the leaders in SLC didn't even know BYU had a football program.

I too wish that BYU could afford to relax and work with non-LDS students even more than they do. But, the combination of limited enrollment, heavy tithing subsidy, and outrageous publicity make that impossible now, IMO.

Seeing so many of these guys wash out has got to be the toughest part of being a BYU fan.

[jay santos]

But, the combination of limited enrollment, heavy tithing subsidy, and outrageous publicity make that impossible now, IMO.

It's only impossible when looked at through an extremely narrow lens.

[DapperDan]

I too wish that BYU could afford to relax and work with non-LDS students even more than they do. But, the combination of limited enrollment, heavy tithing subsidy, and outrageous publicity make that impossible now, IMO.

Seeing so many of these guys wash out has got to be the toughest part of being a BYU fan.

I think with the current independent path or joining the Big-12 BYU will soon find itself with a choice of unofficially loosening the HC or hoping the fanbase will accept mediocrity (or worse).

[byu71]

It's only impossible when looked at through an extremely narrow lens.

I don't know if it is a narrow lens or just a different lens. There are tons, probably the majority of BYU students and thus families of these students who couldn't care less about the athletic programs. A very vocal or at least influential group in the church are also on the very conservative end of the spectrum in the church. Their lens is of a place where they can send their kids protected from the world until they grow up and marry. It is also great because as a reward for staying faithful, you get cheap tuition.

I have wondered at times why they (leaders) just don't go Ricks with BYU. I think it is two fold.

1) I really don't think we realize how much money to the non athletic funds BYU would lose. I honestly know people who give pretty good sums to BYU who would stop if the athletics go away. I am sure there are some in the church who wouldn't care. They are socialists at heart and would say, so what, let's just take more from tithing to subsidize the kids who follow the commandments.

2) I really believe BYU is the vehicle, with it's sports programs, to show the world we are "normal". I don't think even members of the church think Ricks presents an image of the normal mormon.

[Portland Ute]

I would tell a prospective black, non-LDS, BYU athlete that he will get more action at BYU than he could anywhere else in the country.

I wouldn't go so far as to say MORE, but it certainly wouldn't be any less.