Would you recommend BYU to a non-LDS AA?

[Jacob]

I'm assuming the attrition rate is at least twice as high for black non-LDS as white non-LDS, but I could be wrong on that.

It'd be nice to make sure our assumptions are accurate before making generalizations that tend to defame a people and and institution.

[Indy Coug]

Everything I have read recently and from what I have seen with my own eyes is that Drew Phillips is the real deal Holyfield as a scat back, slot receiver and one hell of a kick returner.

Not LDS, but he is white. So Jay can you figure out a formula that will give me the probabilities of him making it all 4 years?

He's a trash-talking redneck, so it ain't good.

[LiveCoug]

Sure!

[Goatnapper'96]

He's a trash-talking redneck, so it ain't good.

He is my type.

[DapperDan]

Huh?

I was agreeing with you.

[jay santos]

Everything I have read recently and from what I have seen with my own eyes is that Drew Phillips is the real deal Holyfield as a scat back, slot receiver and one hell of a kick returner.

Not LDS, but he is white. So Jay can you figure out a formula that will give me the probabilities of him making it all 4 years?

If he were black, I'd say they weren't good. White non-LDS kids seem to have an easier go at it. I can only think of Kessman that didn't make it, but I'm really drawing a blank on guys that did. Leutgerodt? Seems like there have been a couple OL. QB's like Walsh, Feterik. There have been at least a couple BB guys. Brian Dignan?

[jay santos]

So guys what do you attribute the high attrition rate of non-LDS black athletes?

Do we just pick all the rotten apples?

As an institution, what's the solution? 1) stop kicking them out 2) stop inviting them to come 3) keep churning them because they help us win games for a while?

[Flystripper]

absolutely not. BYU is not for everyone and most non-members (let alone minority non- members) are not going to really "get" the culture differences no matter how much they are informed prior to their arrival on campus.

I am not saying that there are not exceptions to the rule. Some kids will embrace all of what BYU has to offer (which includes many great things) but a typical non-member minority is going to have a rough time.

[jay santos]

Here's how I think BYU as an institution views the utility expectation of a non-LDS BYU FB recruit.

possible benefits: get an education, play football maybe make it to the NFL, get baptized into LDS church

possible negatives: get kicked out, never finish education or finish at subpar academic institution, possibly damage chances for pro career

Unfortunately I think BYU and many of the fans view the bolded area as such a huge benefit that it outweighs all the negatives. Thus the huge costs black non LDS incur by choosing BYU are ignored.

[Indy Coug]

BYU has serious attrition issues (HC, academic, mission, etc.) and has limited ability to respond to spikes in that attrition rate that can have long-lasting effects on the program. I don't think BYU is ignorant to the historical attrition rates of non-LDS vs LDS athletes and tries to limit its exposure accordingly.

When BYU tried to throw caution to the wind in 2004 it bit them in the ass like a bear trap.

[byu71]

Oneill Howell, Mike Reed, Curtis Brown, Brian Mcdonald-Ashford all made it four years.

I think 3 of the 4 joined the church which made them eligible to date white LDS chicks.

[DapperDan]

Here's how I think BYU as an institution views the utility expectation of a non-LDS BYU FB recruit.

possible benefits: get an education, play football maybe make it to the NFL, get baptized into LDS church

possible negatives: get kicked out, never finish education or finish at subpar academic institution, possibly damage chances for pro career

Unfortunately I think BYU and many of the fans view the bolded area as such a huge benefit that it outweighs all the negatives. Thus the huge costs black non LDS incur by choosing BYU are ignored.

You missed the biggest negative, embarrass BYU.

[byu71]

If my kid were a high profile athlete, there is no way I would have him go to BYU. My wife probably would, because she would think that would be a great place for them to control his behavior. I would know better.

I am not saying the kid is bad, just that who knows what can happen to a college age kid. If he does screw up the consequences are major. I would hope he would go to the U where he could be around an LDS environment and have LDS coaches.

[jay santos]

You missed the biggest negative, embarrass BYU.

Yes I did forget that one. But I think the Church embarrasses itself by kicking black players out more than black players embarrass the Church.

[byu71]

BYU has serious attrition issues (HC, academic, mission, etc.) and has limited ability to respond to spikes in that attrition rate that can have long-lasting effects on the program. I don't think BYU is ignorant to the historical attrition rates of non-LDS vs LDS athletes and tries to limit its exposure accordingly.

When BYU tried to throw caution to the wind in 2004 it bit them in the ass like a bear trap.

I still believe the "scandal" itself wasn't what bit them in the ass, it was the overreaction to it. The precious fake image. As if the world is to believe college students never have parties and watch porn and have sex at BYU. Remember, none of these guys were found guilty by the courts and yet many fans still refer to them as rapists.