Non-Conference Scheduling rumors

[DU Ute]

You caught them right after they put the fifth shipment of Ute ornaments on the shelves. You are lucky you got what you did, I'm sure they didn't bother with another full shipment of BYU stuff.

[YOhio]

Guys, take the fight out of our Independent Scheduling thread. We're anxiously awaiting our 2013 schedule and don't need to be bothered with holiday ornament smack.

[shoganai]

Since 2008, there has been a definite trend towards the Utes, even in the southwest portion if the state. Prior to that year, shogani's ratios were fairly accurate. Now, even in Provo south (St. George), it is quite even.

I would like to know if ERCougar would agree with my observations.

What you're describing is simply not scientifically possible using the definition of "fan" that a sports marketing survey cares about.

Monetarily valuable fans don't switch allegiances very often (think about what it would take for you as an individual to start cheering for BYU instead of Utah - and you are much closer to the type of person that matters). The odds that 25% of BYU's monetized fan base suddenly became monetized Utah fans in the last five years are obviously absurdly small.

The only other way to make up the difference is a huge population boom of college football fanatics that can't wait to spend their discretionary income on the Utes, while ignoring BYU. Some population trends may marginally favor Utah, but its not even close to what would be required to close the gap in just five years.

[YOhio]

What you're describing is simply not scientifically possible using the definition of "fan" that a sports marketing survey cares about.

Monetarily valuable fans don't switch allegiances very often (think about what it would take for you as an individual to start cheering for BYU instead of Utah - and you are much closer to the type of person that matters). The odds that 25% of BYU's monetized fan base suddenly became monetized Utah fans in the last five years are obviously absurdly small.

The only other way to make up the difference is a huge population boom of college football fanatics that can't wait to spend their discretionary income on the Utes, while ignoring BYU. Some population trends may marginally favor Utah, but its not even close to what would be required to close the gap in just five years.

Hey, Shog. Did you delete your Twitter account and blog? I can't find it anymore.

[Winky Bach]

What you're describing is simply not scientifically possible using the definition of "fan" that a sports marketing survey cares about.

Monetarily valuable fans don't switch allegiances very often (think about what it would take for you as an individual to start cheering for BYU instead of Utah - and you are much closer to the type of person that matters). The odds that 25% of BYU's monetized fan base suddenly became monetized Utah fans in the last five years are obviously absurdly small.

The only other way to make up the difference is a huge population boom of college football fanatics that can't wait to spend their discretionary income on the Utes, while ignoring BYU. Some population trends may marginally favor Utah, but its not even close to what would be required to close the gap in just five years.

Thanks for posting this info. I have noticed an explosion of Ute bumper stickers when I visit Utah, so I can see why people would question it. I also understand what you mean about people willing to spend money being the only ones who count. I have no access to any data, so I find all the posts on the topic interesting.

I think your posts about "freezing out" BYU make sense as well. I think Jay Santos is right, we should be surprised if they did not try this. BYU obviously values the rivalry and seems willing to pick it up later on according to Utahs terms. They are not risking much by trying it.

As a selfish fan from outside of Utah, I would not mind seeing the rivalry die. It seems less intense early in the year and as an independent the 1st 3 weeks are the easy ones to fill. I love H:H or 2:1s with teams I can drive my family to. If I knew lots of Utah fans, I would really miss the game though.

[jay santos]

I think Jay Santos is right

Solid post, WB.

[shoganai]

Hey, Shog. Did you delete your Twitter account and blog? I can't find it anymore.

Yes.

[shoganai]

I have noticed an explosion of Ute bumper stickers when I visit Utah, so I can see why people would question it.

Thanks for pointing this out, because I think it's actually a great example of what I mentioned above about BYU's ridiculous merchandising "strategy."

If you were in the market for one, it would probably be about 10x easier for you to go out today and buy a Utah bumper sticker, than a BYU one. How many BYU fans would even know where to look for one, other than the single campus bookstore on the far side of Provo?

[byu71]

Thanks for pointing this out, because I think it's actually a great example of what I mentioned above about BYU's ridiculous merchandising "strategy."

If you were in the market for one, it would probably be about 10x easier for you to go out today and buy a Utah bumper sticker, than a BYU one. How many BYU fans would even know where to go to look for one, other than the single campus bookstore on the far side of Provo?

I think the problem is not the number of fans, but how the fans perceive themselves. Ute fans perceive themselves as members of the "big boys" club. They don't see themselves as being associated with drunks and guys who run out onto the field wearing suspenders.

On the other hand a lot of BYU fans see themselves as being associated firesides and not booing. Wearing BYU gear is just asking to be picked on by someone who "thinks" they are tough.

[Portland Ute]

Because BYU has the most insanely idiotic merchandise marketing system you could ever conceive of. Utah has set up Red Zone stores all up and down the Wasatch Front, and has a huge inventory of styles and products.

BYU absolutely refuses to do any serious merchandising outside of the on-campus BYU Bookstore, and is most interested in developing new designs of pink t-shirts. I've joked before (sort of) that I wouldn't be shocked if they started requiring an active temple recommend to get in and buy BYU gear.

From a business and branding standpoint it's unjustifiable. But, nobody has ever accused BYU of putting smart business decisions first too often.

The Red Zone stores have only happened in the last few years.

The reported merchandise sales advantage goes back further than that.

I live in Utah. From what I see, it's not hard to get BYU gear if you want it. You see it all the same places Utah sales their stuff: Target, Wal-Mart, Costco, Sam's, Macy's, grocery stores, Fanzz stores, Sports Authority, Dick's, Scheels, etc.

Aside from a RedZone store in Layton, S. Jordan and Sandy, it's not as if BYU stuff is lacking in any of the retail outlets.

I know it's anecdotal, but Utah stuff outsells BYU stuff in Fanzz stores in Ogden, Sandy, Draper, Layton and, obviously, in Salt Lake.

I'm sure this is because Utah has RedZone stores to compete with Fanzz?

[shoganai]

The Red Zone stores have only happened in the last few years.

The reported merchandise sales advantage goes back further than that.

I live in Utah. From what I see, it's not hard to get BYU gear if you want it. You see it all the same places Utah sales their stuff: Target, Wal-Mart, Costco, Sam's, Macy's, grocery stores, Fanzz stores, Sports Authority, Dick's, Scheels, etc.

Aside from a RedZone store in Layton, S. Jordan and Sandy, it's not as if BYU stuff is lacking in any of the retail outlets.

I know it's anecdotal, but Utah stuff outsells BYU stuff in Fanzz stores in Ogden, Sandy, Draper, Layton and, obviously, in Salt Lake.

I'm sure this is because Utah has RedZone stores to compete with Fanzz?

Admittedly I don't know as much about the retail aspect of things. I just know that BYU is notoriously stingy and controlling with its merchandising, and it negatively affects consumption.

I've heard arguments similar to byu71s a lot. The cultural connotations associated with displaying Utah gear or BYU gear is one theory.

Like you said, I recall merchandising advantages to Utah going back quite a while - even to the days when there was really no question that BYU dominated the sports market. In fact, the color, logo, and uniform adjustments BYU made back in 1999 were primarily driven by piss poor merchandising sales, and an attempt to boost things by modernizing the brand.

It did improve things a fair amount. Ironically BYU is now trying to achieve the same result with more throwbacks - the old circular Y logo, more original royal blue stuff with an older cougar head logo, etc.

This link provides a good view of all the iterations BYU has gone through. Notice how many different ones have been pulled out since 1999.

http://www.sportslogos.net/logos/list_by_team/622

Utah, on the other hand, seems to have found a pretty consistent winner.

http://www.sportslogos.net/logos/lis...892/Utah_Utes/

[lambdacoug]

Ironically BYU is now trying to achieve the same result with more throwbacks - the old circular Y logo, more original royal blue stuff with an older cougar head logo, etc.

Anything but the royal blue, I like the dark blue much better.

[Green Monstah]

Remember when this thread was about scheduling and not market research, Pac-12 conspiracies, logo comparison, and CB-esque douchebaggery? That was awesome.

[YOhio]

This link provides a good view of all the iterations BYU has gone through. Notice how many different ones have been pulled out since 1999.

http://www.sportslogos.net/logos/list_by_team/622

Egads. So many bad logos.

[falafel]

This link provides a good view of all the iterations BYU has gone through. Notice how many different ones have been pulled out since 1999.

http://www.sportslogos.net/logos/list_by_team/622

Utah, on the other hand, seems to have found a pretty consistent winner.

http://www.sportslogos.net/logos/lis...892/Utah_Utes/

According to that site, this is our current primary logo: