Heaps may have the goods ...

[Jacob]

I wonder if the coaches are looking at results of drives more than they are looking at stats. If I were a coach and I had two very different QBs competing for the starting job, I wouldn't look at completion percentage any more than I would look at yards per carry, I would look at how a player ran the offense and how often they scored with the offenses in like situations. I don't think it matters if Heaps completes 67% and Nelson 57% if Nelson's offense is scoring and Heaps offense is not. As a result, yesterday, by my measure, Nelson won.

In the spring, Jake threw a lot more TDs also, IIRC

[MarkGrace]

I wonder if the coaches are looking at results of drives more than they are looking at stats. If I were a coach and I had two very different QBs competing for the starting job, I wouldn't look at completion percentage any more than I would look at yards per carry, I would look at how a player ran the offense and how often they scored with the offenses in like situations. I don't think it matters if Heaps completes 67% and Nelson 57% if Nelson's offense is scoring and Heaps offense is not. As a result, yesterday, by my measure, Nelson won.

Oh, I'm sure they are. But I think they are also looking at a pile of other things and all sorts of factors that don't really get captured in the stats (like 60 yard td's against blown assignments by walk-ons, the fact that Heaps has attempted 14 passes against the 1st team D and Riley 2, etc.). That's why I said I'm not sure what the even stats mean. They looked pretty even on day 2, but everyone in attendance (Jan, Hans, etc.) said Heaps was clearly better. Pretty much everyone who has been around the practices has said Heaps is clearly better. That's why I don't really get where the "even" thing is coming from.

[Indy Coug]

He's 5'10" 170 lb. Jay Santos saw him.

LOL. If you're going to put your trust in Jay, all I can say is you're going to get what you pay for.

[wally]

I think that BYU will end up following the path that Utah blazed for them last year: Start the veteran (Nelson) for the first part of the season working in play time for Heaps during that tenure. Once the true freshman is comfortable, and once Nelsons limitations in the passing game bite BYU, make the swap and use Nelson in specialty situations.

It's formulaic already for crying out loud.

[The_Tick]

If they are dead even....and one of those players is a JR. and one is a FR., then go with the Freshman.

[Donuthole]

He sure was in HS.

So was Lance Pendleton. I think it's funny that Pendleton, primarily a run-first QB, rewrote the 3A state passing record book but was unable to succeed at BYU, primarily because of his inability to throw the ball.

Nelson, primarily a run-first QB, comes along and rewrites all of Pendleton's 3A passing records only to find out that he's unable to succeed at BYU, primarily because of his inability to throw the ball.

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

So was Lance Pendleton. I think it's funny that Pendleton, primarily a run-first QB, rewrote the 3A state passing record book but was unable to succeed at BYU, primarily because of his inability to throw the ball.

Nelson, primarily a run-first QB, comes along and rewrites all of Pendleton's 3A passing records only to find out that he's unable to succeed at BYU, primarily because of his inability to throw the ball.

A guy I play ball with was a defensive coordinator that went up against Nelson in HS. He said going into the game they knew they were completely out matched by Logan's personnel, and had zero answer for Nelson. So they had to make a choice: let Nelson kill you with his legs, or leave passing lanes open all over the field. So they chose to, as he put it, "essentially put 10 guys within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage." And Nelson threw for about 450 yards and 6 TDs before leaving in the 3rd quarter.

[Hot Lunch]

A guy I play ball with was a defensive coordinator that went up against Nelson in HS. He said going into the game they knew they were completely out matched by Logan's personnel, and had zero answer for Nelson. So they had to make a choice: let Nelson kill you with his legs, or leave passing lanes open all over the field. So they chose to, as he put it, "essentially put 10 guys withing 5 yards of the line of scrimmage." And Nelson threw for about 450 yards and 6 TDs before leaving in the 3rd quarter.

and that was Division 3A Utah high school football.

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

and that was Division 3A Utah high school football.

Correct. And if I'm not mistaken, when Nelson was at Logan, they were one of the largest 3A schools, and they were going up against several schools that had just barely made the jump from 2A up to 3A (like the one that coach worked at).

So yes, Nelson used to run over LB's. He also usually weighed as much or more than most of the LB's he was going up against.

[Pheidippides]

and that was Division 3A Utah high school football.

And let me remind everybody that I was a starting offensive tackle in division 3A Utah football. At 170 pounds.

[MarkGrace]

I think that BYU will end up following the path that Utah blazed for them last year: Start the veteran (Nelson) for the first part of the season working in play time for Heaps during that tenure. Once the true freshman is comfortable, and once Nelsons limitations in the passing game bite BYU, make the swap and use Nelson in specialty situations.

It's formulaic already for crying out loud.

I could definitely see this happening. Right now, I'm feeling like it's going to.

[MarkGrace]

If they are dead even....and one of those players is a JR. and one is a FR., then go with the Freshman.

Agree. If even, you go with the guy that has far greater upside and stands to benefit your program for a longer period of time.

[beelzebabette]

I think that BYU will end up following the path that Utah blazed for them last year: Start the veteran (Nelson) for the first part of the season working in play time for Heaps during that tenure. Once the true freshman is comfortable, and once Nelsons limitations in the passing game bite BYU, make the swap and use Nelson in specialty situations.

It's formulaic already for crying out loud.

Are we discussing the Covey-Detmer formula?

[Donuthole]

Correct. And if I'm not mistaken, when Nelson was at Logan, they were one of the largest 3A schools, and they were going up against several schools that had just barely made the jump from 2A up to 3A (like the one that coach worked at).

So yes, Nelson used to run over LB's. He also usually weighed as much or more than most of the LB's he was going up against.

I don't disagree with the point of your post, but he also ran amok against my alma mater, one of the biggest 3A schools which was actually switched to 4A the next year and still made the state championship game (before getting absolutely pulverized by Timpview). So, in his defense, while he did make a living off smaller schools, he also did it against the best in 3A (and arguably the top tier of 4A) as well.

[wally]

Are we discussing the Covey-Detmer formula?

Of course we are. Where the hell else do you think we stole the idea from to blaze the path for you?