The PAC12 Celebration Thread

[Viking]

Sounds like a great plan. I hope they can pull it off.

These numbers surprised me:

90% get in, 40% enroll.

SAFETY SCHOOL!

[EuropeanFootballMale]

90% get in, 40% enroll.

SAFETY SCHOOL!

Wow. I had no idea the yield was that poor.

[LA Ute]

90% get in, 40% enroll.

SAFETY SCHOOL!

STATE UNIVERSITY!

[il Padrino Ute]

Wow. I had no idea the yield was that poor.

The U is just taking the appropriate steps to be considered a true BCS school. Next up will be to teach the boosters how to pay a kid and his parents enough to get him to sign, but not so much that it draws immediate attention as to warrant an investigation until the player has been gone from school for a few years.

[Viking]

STATE UNIVERSITY!

Safety school.

UT has half the acceptance rate and a little more than 50% yield.

As I look at the comparables, you compare well with ASU and Northern Colorado.

[Viking]

STATE UNIVERSITY!

At BYU, we accept a little less and more choose to enroll than at Harvard.

The U is incontrovertibly the safety school of the average utahn. Period.

Is BYU a great school? No. But it's better than the U and you guys have a LONG way to go to get any credibility as an undergrad institution.

[Blueintheface]

At BYU, we accept a little less and more choose to enroll than at Harvard.The U is incontrovertibly the safety school of the average utahn. Period.

Is BYU a great school? No. But it's better than the U and you guys have a LONG way to go to get any credibility as an undergrad institution.

That's not misleading at all.

[Viking]

That's not misleading at all.

How? Our enrollment rate is 78%, Harvard is 76%.

[Blueintheface]

How? Our enrollment rate is 78%, Harvard is 76%.

It leads to the misguided conclusion that the education benefits at BYU are greater than Harvard...something about a captive audience, Mormons, etc, etc.

(Dammit, I saw that your lure had a 'made in China' label on it and I still bit. Shit!)

[Viking]

It leads to the misguided conclusion that the education benefits at BYU are greater than Harvard...something about a captive audience, Mormons, etc, etc.

(Dammit, I saw that your lure had a 'made in China' label on it and I still bit. Shit!)

A high yield simply means the school is the primary choice of applicants. I think only people on CB would try to argue that BYU is comparable to Harvard from a long-term benefit perspective. Of course, if Utah had BYU's popularity, SU might try to make that argument on Utah's behalf but they are squarely the official safety school of Utah.

[LA Ute]

How? Our enrollment rate is 78%, Harvard is 76%.

The important thing to remember is that BYU and Utah are apples and oranges, so statistical comparisons are almost always meaningless. Also, I readily admit that as a whole, BYU has a more high-achieving student body, and it's not close.

The reason for all of BYU's statistical success is the church affiliation. That's why 78% of kids admitted end up enrolling: They want to go to the church school (and their parents want them to). There's nothing wrong with that and everything right with it, IMO. But I think that you have a very heavy burden of proof to carry if you want to argue that the education at BYU is elite just because lots of smart kids want to go there. The causal connection just isn't there.

The U. is what it is, a state university and by many, many measures a good one. (This does not detract from BYU in any way. Just thought I'd note that.) For decades Utah was set up as not only the state higher ed system's flagship university, but also as sort of a safety school. It was pretty easy to get in, and that structure made it hard to improvement the overall test scores, etc. Now that there are many alternatives (SUU, UVU, WSU, and the community colleges -- which didn't even exist until the 80's) the U. of U. has been able to change its role, and that has been happening steadily and with increasing speed. That will continue. Those other schools are the safety schools.

Both the Y and the U have come a long way. (In the late 1970s and early 80s, a warm body who was a return missionary would get into BYU. Now the growth of the church has mad admissions very competitive. Lots and lots of LDS applicants.)

Both schools will keep improving. (Well, maybe BYU won't, since it already is the Harvard of the West, or maybe the Stanford of the Rockies, or is it the Notre Dame of the West? I can't keep them all straight. Maybe BYU should try simply to be BYU. )

[Viking]

The important thing to remember is that BYU and Utah are apples and oranges, so statistical comparisons are almost always meaningless. Also, I readily admit that as a whole, BYU has a more high-achieving student body, and it's not close.

The reason for all of BYU's statistical success is the church affiliation. That's why 78% of kids admitted end up enrolling: They want to go to the church school (and their parents want them to). There's nothing wrong with that and everything right with it, IMO. But I think that you have a very heavy burden of proof to carry if you want to argue that the education at BYU is elite just because lots of smart kids want to go there. The causal connection just isn't there.

The U. is what it is, a state university and by many, many measures a good one. (This does not detract from BYU in any way. Just thought I'd note that.) For decades Utah was set up as not only the state higher ed system's flagship university, but also as sort of a safety school. It was pretty easy to get in, and that structure made it hard to improvement the overall test scores, etc. Now that there are many alternatives (SUU, UVU, WSU, and the community colleges -- which didn't even exist until the 80's) the U. of U. has been able to change its role, and that has been happening steadily and with increasing speed. That will continue. Those other schools are the safety schools.

Both the Y and the U have come a long way. (In the late 1970s and early 80s, a warm body who was a return missionary would get into BYU. Now the growth of the church has mad admissions very competitive. Lots and lots of LDS applicants.)

Both schools will keep improving. (Well, maybe BYU won't, since it already is the Harvard of the West, or maybe the Stanford of the Rockies, or is it the Notre Dame of the West? I can't keep them all straight. Maybe BYU should try simply to be BYU. )

Utah will improve at a far faster rate than BYU, which I believe is on a long-term decline and has been ever since the Ute prophets hijacked the school with a bunch of GAs post-Rex Lee.

If BYU goes back to a legitimate academic leader than it might reverse this trend but I doubt it will

[TexTechCoug]

Utah will improve at a far faster rate than BYU, which I believe is on a long-term decline and has been ever since the Ute prophets hijacked the school with a bunch of GAs post-Rex Lee.

If BYU goes back to a legitimate academic leader than it might reverse this trend but I doubt it will

I think your disillusionment with the Church in general may be clouding you opinion of BYU. BYU is not Ivy League by anyone's standards, but to say the school is in decline, or that it is not legitimate is hyperbole.

BYU has many excellent undergraduate departments and a select group of top notch graduate programs. Comparing it to large "research" institutions will always give a bad picture because BYU does not score well under those criteria.

BYU students are recruited by many organizations, and BYU sends a large % of it's students on to PhD, MD, and other professional degrees. It is an excellent school and I don't see any evidence of its decline.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I think you disillusionment with the Church in general may be clouding you opinion of BYU. BYU is not Ivy League by anyone's standards, but to say the school is in decline, or that it is not legitimate is hyperbole.

BYU has many excellent undergraduate departments and a select group of top notch graduate programs. Comparing it to large "research" institutions will always give a bad picture because BYU does not score well under those criteria.

BYU students are recruited by many organizations, and BYU sends a large % of it's students on to PhD, MD, and other professional degrees. It is an excellent school and I don't see any evidence of its decline.

Yeah. I have some problems with recent BYU leadership, but the university is way beyond where it was in the Rex Lee era in terms of overall quality of faculty and programs.

There is not much middle ground with Viking. Bless his heart.

[OrangeUte]

Let's get this thread back on track... A link to blog and/or article please, LAUte.