The Big 12 expansion groundswell

[TripletDaddy]

Iowa State, Mizzou and Kansas are private universities?

he said he was dreaming

[SoCalCoug]

The big twelve needs to convince notre dame to come no matter the cost. Let them have NBC. Also get to twelve teams and only play teams in your division. That would leave ND with seven games they can schedule on their own. If other teams want to schedule inter-divisional games they can do that on their own. just do every thing in your power to give ND the flexibility they need.

Let's say they do this, and BYU and ND join. Then let's say that the conference is divided so that BYU is in a division with Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Missouri, and whatever other team they get to join (or even ND). If there are no automatic interdivisional games, how is BYU better off in this Big 12 than as an independent?

[falafel]

Let's say they do this, and BYU and ND join. Then let's say that the conference is divided so that BYU is in a division with Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Missouri, and whatever other team they get to join (or even ND). If there are no automatic interdivisional games, how is BYU better off in this Big 12 than as an independent?

Bcs access.

[Surfah]

Bcs access.

Big 12 North Divisional Championships and Big 12 championship games in Dallas every year!

Also, for basketball it's a no brainer.

[TripletDaddy]

Bcs access.

Also, Kansas coming to the Marriott Center every year for hoops. Not to mention Mizzou, K State, Texas, etc.

Play Notre Dame every year in football.

Olympic sports would be competing in a far superior conference all around.

Increased access to Texas recruits.

It is pretty much better in every sense.

[SoCalCoug]

BYU has had the fanbase and facilities to fit in for a few years now, but Jimmer was quite possibly the biggest college basketball star (not best player, mind you) of the past several years (decade?) and I'm wondering if that changed perceptions.

Consider this: is it a coincidence that Jimmermania happened shortly after BYU became an ESPN property? How did Jimmermania start? By ESPN hype.

I know you're looking at from the perspective of Jimmermania helping raise BYU's stock as an attractive option for the Big 12.

But can you not also see it as an indication of what ESPN can do for an ESPN-property BYU? They would no longer be an ESPN property as a member of the Big 12, because I don't see the 8-year ESPN contract being viable in that scenario.

[TripletDaddy]

Consider this: is it a coincidence that Jimmermania happened shortly after BYU became an ESPN property? How did Jimmermania start? By ESPN hype.

I know you're looking at from the perspective of Jimmermania helping raise BYU's stock as an attractive option for the Big 12.

But can you not also see it as an indication of what ESPN can do for an ESPN-property BYU? They would no longer be an ESPN property as a member of the Big 12, because I don't see the 8-year ESPN contract being viable in that scenario.

Well, in that case BYU would have to settle for being as well known as Texas and Oklahoma, also currently in the Big 12 and one of which has formed its own network...with ESPN. Or as Aggie likes to call it, "ESIPN."

[SoCalCoug]

Bcs access.

Assuming BYU then wins the Big 12 championship game.

[SoCalCoug]

Also, Kansas coming to the Marriott Center every year for hoops. Not to mention Mizzou, K State, Texas, etc.

That's your best point. But football is what drives the bus here.

Play Notre Dame every year in football.

Aren't we sort of almost doing that now? Yes, I know it would be H-H, rather than the 2-1 we have now, but we'd also play Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State and Missouri every year in football.

Olympic sports would be competing in a far superior conference all around.

Yay gymnastics!

Increased access to Texas recruits.

Except that under this scenario, there wouldn't be divisional games in Texas at all. We'd still have to schedule Texas schools as non-divisional games.

[SoCalCoug]

Well, in that case BYU would have to settle for being as well known as Texas and Oklahoma, also currently in the Big 12 and one of which has formed its own network...with ESPN. Or as Aggie likes to call it, "ESIPN."

BYU would have to settle for being part of a conference, it's the conference that the hype is focused on, not necessarily BYU, except as far as hyping BYU benefits the conference.

[Flystripper]

Consider this: is it a coincidence that Jimmermania happened shortly after BYU became an ESPN property? How did Jimmermania start? By ESPN hype.

I know you're looking at from the perspective of Jimmermania helping raise BYU's stock as an attractive option for the Big 12.

But can you not also see it as an indication of what ESPN can do for an ESPN-property BYU? They would no longer be an ESPN property as a member of the Big 12, because I don't see the 8-year ESPN contract being viable in that scenario.

ESPN is the Big 12's tier 1 partner and LHN's partner with Texas... I am trying to figure out what your concern is regarding ESPN.

[BemidjiCoug]

I only put Houston in the North so the North schools could go to Texas every other year for recruiting purposes. If not why would the North Schools want Notre Dame and a 5 conference game schedule?

Your your logic is all based on Notre Dame joining the BIG 12. Its not going to happen, if they wanted to join a conference the B1G would have been it. Texas A&M was in the South Division. The Northern Division schools were already getting go to Texas every other year when they play one of the 4 Texas schools outside of their divisional games.

Old BIG 12

North
Nebraska
Colorado
Missouri
Kansas
Kansas St.
Iowa St.

South
Oklahoma
Oklahoma St.
Texas
Texas A&M
Baylor
Texas Tech

They would never put Houston in the North if they are trying to replace A&M. The only reason that they would consider Houston is that the teams in the South Division want to replace the game in Texas.

If the BIG 12 does expand I think the divisions could shake out two different ways: One they make the Divisions based on geography keeping the North and South. The other would be that they consider making new divisions where they have Texas in one and Oklahoma in the other and have them still play a game every year. Much like they did in the B1G with Ohio St. and Michigan.

First Option

North (would be the much weaker division - why i think they would consider doing the second option)

Air Force or Arkansas
Kansas st.
Kansas
BYU
Missouri
Iowa St.

South

Texas
Texas Tech
Baylor
Houston/TCU (this is still a legitimate option)/Arkansas
Oklahoma
Oklahoma St.


Second Option

Some stupid name like Legends

Oklahoma
Oklahoma St.
Kansas
Kansas St.
Missouri
Iowa St.

Some other stupid name like Icons

Texas
Texas Tech
Baylor
Houston or TCU
BYU
Air Force or Arkansas

Or A&M could stay and throw out Houston from the equation

The second option wouldn't make sense geographically, but would make a much more competitive league than the first option

[BemidjiCoug]

I would still put Baylor in the privates group, since they share our strict christian moral standards.

[Uncle Ted]

Assuming BYU then wins the Big 12 championship game.

Don't forget about the at large BCS spots. The Big 12 has had more at large appearances than the MWC or the Pac-10.

[TripletDaddy]

That's your best point. But football is what drives the bus here.

Thanks. It is hard for me to choose one as the "best."

Im puzzled why you would think basketball isn't a factor in the decision on the heels of BYU having to scramble to house its hoops program in the WCC.

Aren't we sort of almost doing that now? Yes, I know it would be H-H, rather than the 2-1 we have now, but we'd also play Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State and Missouri every year in football.

No, we are not "sort of" playing Notre Dame every year in a home and home.

Yay gymnastics!

I lumped basketball in there because hoops needs a conference.

Except that under this scenario, there wouldn't be divisional games in Texas at all. We'd still have to schedule Texas schools as non-divisional games

Unless I misunderstood, the scenario he suggested allowed for 2 non-divisional games a year on a rotating basis. So BYu would play either t.u. or TT fairly regularly. Not sure how we would not play them "at all."

PS time to "bump" this thread!