The Big 12 expansion groundswell

[Moliere]

When has a BOR ever forced two schools to stay together? There were a ton of threats and bluster when UCLA left Cal behind, but ultimately the California BOR caved. If the B12 says, "Sorry, only one offer on the table for now" and both schools are looking death in the face, they are going to let AZ go. It all depends on how the B12 handles this.

Exactly. The Big12 also needs to wait and see what happens with the ACC. If FSU leaves for the B1G and takes a couple others and the SEC grabs a couple ACC teams, it’s possible that a school like Miami or North Carolina State or Duke is available. I’d much rather have Duke than Utah in the league and BYU already covers the Itah market.

Also a reminder that the Utah market is not a big market. Taking a couple more teams from the eastern time zone would be better than ASU and Utah. I’d even take SDSU over Utah since it puts you in California, gives you a pacific time zone team and gives you a new market.

[Pelado]

Yeah, I've seen all that and wonder how much is fact, and if fact, has it changed since it was reported? I don't understand why the BOR would meet to discuss both schools if it is only going to approve one of them. But I guess there could be an explanation.

Also, the situation surrounding pro-rata increases could have changed as the environment has evolved.

This round of realignment has been very fluid.

The notice for tomorrow's Arizona BOR meeting has talking points related to both the UA president and the ASU president.

[myboynoah]

The notice for tomorrow's Arizona BOR meeting has talking points related to both the UA president and the ASU president.

Exactly. Why would they invite and discuss ASU if they are only going to tell them to stay on the Titanic?

[myboynoah]

Exactly. The Big12 also needs to wait and see what happens with the ACC. If FSU leaves for the B1G and takes a couple others and the SEC grabs a couple ACC teams, it’s possible that a school like Miami or North Carolina State or Duke is available. I’d much rather have Duke than Utah in the league and BYU already covers the Itah market.

Also a reminder that the Utah market is not a big market. Taking a couple more teams from the eastern time zone would be better than ASU and Utah. I’d even take SDSU over Utah since it puts you in California, gives you a pacific time zone team and gives you a new market.

Bingo. Let's wait to see what shakes out from that ACC tree.

[Pelado]

When has a BOR ever forced two schools to stay together? There were a ton of threats and bluster when UCLA left Cal behind, but ultimately the California BOR caved. If the B12 says, "Sorry, only one offer on the table for now" and both schools are looking death in the face, they are going to let AZ go. It all depends on how the B12 handles this.

Another point on this I meant to make earlier:

When UCLA accepted B1G membership, they did so without previously getting Board approval because the Board had previously granted authority for that to the university presidents in the UC system. The threats and bluster came after the fact, when Berkeley was trying to either keep UCLA in the PAC or, at least, get some of that sweet B1G money flowing into their coffers. The Board recognized that reneging on UCLA's acceptance of membership would be both stupid (since they would be making so much more money there) and legally problematic (opening them up to costly litigation from the B1G and/or its media partners who had relied on the Board previously having granted conference-choosing authority to the university president.

The Board didn't force UCLA to stay, but did resolve to make UCLA pay a stipend to their poor sister campus in Berkeley.

Other systems that have seen one school leave another behind - Oklahoma, for example - have a different Board of Directors/Regents/Whatever for each school. Arizona and Arizona State report to the same Board of Regents.

[All-American]

Please do the right thing, BY. Make a single offer to Arizona only. Take it or leave it. ASU and Utah have zero other options and no leverage whatsoever. There is no reason to add them quickly. They will still be there in a few months, more desperate than ever. Let's see what shakes out with the B1G, Oregon, Washington, etc. Pretty please.

I agree, but not gonna happen. UA and ASU are a package.

Unfortunately, AU/ASU know that at 13, the Big XII needs to add either one more or three more (to reach 14 or 16). They also know that our other option is, well, there is no other option (sorry UCONN). So, they know that if UA/ASU/UU stays as a package, the Big 12 will take that over any other option.

Strange phenomenon. A shred of shrewdness in what's left of that sinkhole.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Exactly. The Big12 also needs to wait and see what happens with the ACC. If FSU leaves for the B1G and takes a couple others and the SEC grabs a couple ACC teams, it’s possible that a school like Miami or North Carolina State or Duke is available. I’d much rather have Duke than Utah in the league and BYU already covers the Itah market.

Also a reminder that the Utah market is not a big market. Taking a couple more teams from the eastern time zone would be better than ASU and Utah. I’d even take SDSU over Utah since it puts you in California, gives you a pacific time zone team and gives you a new market.

You had a great post going right up to that last sentence. SDSU? No way.

[Jeff Lebowski]

My expectation right now is that both Arizona and ASU will get into the Big 12. If Fox doesn't agree to a pro-rata increase for both, then one or both of them will have to come in at a reduced rate.



I believe it was All American who taught me that the appropriate word to use here is "fewer".

That said, if you had a choice between only one of the following, which would you add to the Big 12:

- Both Arizona and Arizona State
- UConn
- Utah

I refuse to answer a hypothetical that would never exist.

[Moliere]

You had a great post going right up to that last sentence. SDSU? No way.

It was a dig at Utah and would be funny if it happened, which it won’t.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I agree, but not gonna happen. UA and ASU are a package.

Unfortunately, AU/ASU know that at 13, the Big XII needs to add either one more or three more (to reach 14 or 16). They also know that our other option is, well, there is no other option (sorry UCONN). So, they know that if UA/ASU/UU stays as a package, the Big 12 will take that over any other option.

Strange phenomenon. A shred of shrewdness in what's left of that sinkhole.

What leverage do these three schools have? Why couldn't the B12 just say, "Sorry, not interested in all three at this time" and then wait to see what happens with Oregon, Washington, etc.? You think the B12 would take UA/ASU/UU over UW/UO? That would be idiotic.

UA/ASU/Utah have no other options. They have zero leverage.

Man, I love you guys, but I am glad you are not in charge of the B12 decision making.

[Pelado]

What leverage do these three schools have? Why couldn't the B12 just say, "Sorry, not interested in all three at this time" and then wait to see what happens with Oregon, Washington, etc.? You think the B12 would take UA/ASU/UU over UW/UO? That would be idiotic.

UA/ASU/Utah have no other options. They have zero leverage.

Man, I love you guys, but I am glad you are not in charge of the B12 decision making.

I agree that there's no need to add anyone else right now. I'm not advocating that they take both Arizona and Arizona State, I'm just stating that I expect that to happen.

[USUC]

Apparently some BYU insiders are saying that Utah is definitely on its way to the Big-XII. Im hearing it second hand though as i guess its super secret or something. I've been pessimistic about the Utah situation aince yesterday. But now that FSU has made a stink in the ACC, is there any reason to think Yormark isn't going to be shrewd and take time to assess the situation further? He values basketball so AZ makes sense. But the ACC has better markets.

[Paperback Writer]

What leverage do these three schools have? Why couldn't the B12 just say, "Sorry, not interested in all three at this time" and then wait to see what happens with Oregon, Washington, etc.? You think the B12 would take UA/ASU/UU over UW/UO? That would be idiotic.

UA/ASU/Utah have no other options. They have zero leverage.

Man, I love you guys, but I am glad you are not in charge of the B12 decision making.

I wonder if Oregon will see an opening and surprise everyone like Nebraska did years ago.

As background: B1G publicizes it wants to expand to 12 teams and hold a CCG. Their target is Notre Dame but the Irish balk once again. Missouri starts promoting itself as a logical choice. Nebraska knows Colorado is lost to the PAC12 and hears reports that Texas along with other schools (presumable aTM and Oklahoma) are wanting in on a PAC12 deal. Fearful that they will be on the outside looking in, Nebraska approaches the B1G with the line that the Huskers are more attractive than Missouri.

So if Arizona and ASU tell the Big12 they are a package deal and they might have to include Utah as well to stay at an even number, I could see Oregon approaching the Big12 with a line that they are more attractive than either Arizona or Utah. The scenario is even stronger if the B1G does not have much interest in adding Oregon. In my view, Oregon is behind Notre Dame and Washington and possibly Stanford in the B1G expansion queue. Does Oregon hold out and hope a B1G invitation eventually arrives or make a surprise move and join the Big12?

[All-American]

What leverage do these three schools have? Why couldn't the B12 just say, "Sorry, not interested in all three at this time" and then wait to see what happens with Oregon, Washington, etc.? You think the B12 would take UA/ASU/UU over UW/UO? That would be idiotic.

UA/ASU/Utah have no other options. They have zero leverage.

Man, I love you guys, but I am glad you are not in charge of the B12 decision making.

Don’t get me wrong. If I was in charge of B12 decision making then I absolutely don’t add Utah, on the grounds of screw Utah because Utah sucks.

[Green Monstah]

OK. We should eliminate a massive advantage for BYU in the long run and create a slight incremental advantage for the B12. Completely disagree but I understand your logic.

Yeah, Utah did lose two rose bowls, but I think the B12 would be smart to pass on Utah and wait for the ACC to implode and pick up some quality eastern teams. Va Tech, Louisville, etc.

Utah is also a horrible basketball school.

The ACC argument is a good one. The real coup would be getting one of Miami and FSU plus one other Acc school with a high profile (Carolina or L’ville). No market overlap.