The Big 12 expansion groundswell

[Flystripper]

disagree. still a blue blood program.

We agree then. I am just bad at communication

[Jeff Lebowski]

Says who? Says you? Penn State is also a Blue blood

Lots of people say so. ESPN, for starters.

https://www.espn.com/college-footbal...ll-blue-bloods

[Flystripper]

Lots of people say so. ESPN, for starters.

https://www.espn.com/college-footbal...ll-blue-bloods

So 12 ESPN writers decide? I will stick with my opinion since that is all it is. BTW we are really only arguing about 3-5 additional schools in this important discussion.

[USUC]

So 12 ESPN writers decide? I will stick with my opinion since that is all it is. BTW we are really only arguing about 3-5 additional schools in this important discussion.

Yeah. This discussion got a bit derailed, my only point was that there isn't much separation between the new Big XII, The PAC-12, and the ACC as far as football goes. Revenue and reputation may be different, but Utah fans already laying in to the conference smack talk is dumb.

[Jeff Lebowski]

So 12 ESPN writers decide? I will stick with my opinion since that is all it is. BTW we are really only arguing about 3-5 additional schools in this important discussion.

Haha. That was one example. Google the topic and you will see a pretty broad consensus on the top 6-8 programs. And you will see that most people think the list stops at 6-8 programs.

I agree with this list:

Blue Bloods: Ohio State, Texas, Notre Dame, Oklahoma, USC, Alabama, Michigan

https://thebrokenanchor.com/is-your-...-a-blue-blood/

[Flystripper]

In that we can agree. Conference smack really is dumb, but both sides do it. Ted posts anti PAC12 links with only a slightly lower frequency than his virus filled lib pwning links. The new Big 12 even without Texas and Oklahoma is every bit the equal to the PAC 12 and ACC in any recent performance measure with the exception of the national championship won by FSU and QB crab legs. Reputation? I don't give a shit about that, after all I am a fan of BYU and our identity is intrinsically tied to being disrespected.

[originalsocal]

Lots of people say so. ESPN, for starters.

https://www.espn.com/college-footbal...ll-blue-bloods

In reading through this list, I could argue the BYU should be at least in the top twenty. We have one national title, a hall of fame head coach, 4 Davey Obriens, a Doak Walker, two Outlands, 23 conference championships, 14 bowl wins, multiple first team AA, and a damn fine uniform.

Not bad considering we are in the Rocky Mountains. I don't think we are blue blood, but we are elite damn it! Compared to some of these, it's laughable.


A few samples:

T18. Michigan State Spartans | 7.67

Some great coaches, including Alabama's Nick Saban, have passed through East Lansing since Duffy Daugherty won the school's second title in 1965 but none have been able to pull off the feat. The Spartans appeared in the College Football Playoff last season, where they lost to Alabama.

T18. UCLA Bruins | 7.67

UCLA has one national title and one Heisman Trophy (quarterback Gary Beban), but both came before 1970. Former coach Terry Donahue won seven straight bowl games in the 1980s, and Jim Mora has the Bruins winning again as of late.

20. Texas A&M Aggies | 7.42

Coach Homer Norton won the Aggies their first and only national championship in 1939. They have since produced two Heisman winners in running back John David Crow (1957) and quarterback Johnny Manziel (2012).

T21. Oregon Ducks | 7.33

Oregon is the first team on the list to never have claimed a national title. Quarterback Marcus Mariota brought the school's first Heisman to Eugene in 2014, the same year the Ducks fell to Ohio State in the first College Football Playoff final. Oregon was also the runner-up to Auburn's title in 2010.

T21. Stanford Cardinal | 7.33

Stanford also lacks a national title, but the Cardinal have an impressive line of quarterback alumni including Jim Plunkett (who won the Heisman in 1970), John Elway and Andrew Luck. Current coach David Shaw has made three Rose Bowl appearances in the past four seasons, and the Cardinal have won two of them (2012 and 2015).

23. Washington Huskies | 7.17

Washington's lone title came in 1991 under the direction of coach Don James. The Huskies have also won seven Rose Bowls, the most recent of which came in 2001 when coach Rick Neuheisel and quarterback Marques Tuiasosopo took down Drew Brees' Purdue team.

24. Wisconsin Badgers | 6.92

Wisconsin's strong tradition of running the football is borne out in its two Heisman-winning backs: Ron Dayne in 1999 and Alan Ameche in 1954. The Badgers have won 14 Big Ten titles and won three Rose Bowls.

25. Arkansas Razorbacks | 6.42

Arkansas is without a Heisman Trophy or a national championship. The Razorbacks have never won an SEC conference title and won 13 conference crowns while a member of the Southwest Conference.

[SteelBlue]

One ought to dismiss any essay that speaks of "streets filled with needles and feces," as being absurdly sensationalistic, but we eagerly read such things to confirm our preconceptions. Tomorrow we're taking the ferry for a nice lunch and a mid-day stroll along the Embarcadero. We'll return Saturday to spend the day with a grandson, walking over to the Palace of Fine Arts, and then perhaps picnicking on the Marina Green. The sky will be clear and temps will be in the 70s (Phoenix should top out around 110). But SF is apparently a hellhole and I'll be sure to wear my waders.

The wife and I spent a week in SF last month and it was fantastic. For years we've been getting a hotel in Walnut Creek then from there we grab the BART into the city each day and walk everywhere. We grab Bart early and we come home on one of the last trains at night, so we see the city day and night. We ended up walking 12-15 miles/day. I stepped over exactly zero piles of human shit and saw zero needles and there wasn't much of the city I didn't see. I also saw zero crimes on the BART.

When we got back to very conservative Redding and I shared with coworkers where I'd been I had no fewer than 15 people ask me some version of "wait, isn't it covered in feces and needles?" Also got asked a lot about broad daylight crimes etc... I can't figure out where people are getting this idea that SF is a hellscape. I'd retire there if I could afford it, it's an incredible city.

[Art Vandelay]

Haha. That was one example. Google the topic and you will see a pretty broad consensus on the top 6-8 programs. And you will see that most people think the list stops at 6-8 programs.

I agree with this list:

Blue Bloods: Ohio State, Texas, Notre Dame, Oklahoma, USC, Alabama, Michigan

https://thebrokenanchor.com/is-your-...-a-blue-blood/

I agree with that list (though at least a half dozen other schools would say "you forgot to add us"). What is interesting is how many of them are holding on to past successes to justify their prominence. At this point there is Bama..... gap..... THE OSU.. smaller gap. Oklahoma....huge gap everyone else.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I agree with that list (though at least a half dozen other schools would say "you forgot to add us"). What is interesting is how many of them are holding on to past successes to justify their prominence. At this point there is Bama..... gap..... THE OSU.. smaller gap. Oklahoma....huge gap everyone else.

Meh. It is cyclical. Alabama had a long stretch where they didn't accomplish much.

[Applejack]

The wife and I spent a week in SF last month and it was fantastic. For years we've been getting a hotel in Walnut Creek then from there we grab the BART into the city each day and walk everywhere. We grab Bart early and we come home on one of the last trains at night, so we see the city day and night. We ended up walking 12-15 miles/day. I stepped over exactly zero piles of human shit and saw zero needles and there wasn't much of the city I didn't see. I also saw zero crimes on the BART.

When we got back to very conservative Redding and I shared with coworkers where I'd been I had no fewer than 15 people ask me some version of "wait, isn't it covered in feces and needles?" Also got asked a lot about broad daylight crimes etc... I can't figure out where people are getting this idea that SF is a hellscape. I'd retire there if I could afford it, it's an incredible city.

Fox News runs urban hell-scape pieces quite often. It’s a winning strategy for their audience of ex-urban geriatrics.

when I visit SLC and tell people I know that I live in dc the questions I get are pretty crazy.

[old_gregg]

gas middle america

[frank ryan]

For record, I think sf >>> phoenix.

No question. Don't listen to right-wing emotional horror porn. They say the same things about Scandanavia. West Virginia and of Appalacia is rough.

[Omaha 680]

Fox News runs urban hell-scape pieces quite often. It’s a winning strategy for their audience of ex-urban geriatrics.

when I visit SLC and tell people I know that I live in dc the questions I get are pretty crazy.

As usual the truth is somewhere in the middle. The urban hellscape narrative is obviously overblown but things also aren't going great in a lot of large cities. This is anecdotal but I lived in Harlem from 2013-2018 and am back in Manhattan on a project assignment and spend about 50% of my time here. The difference between when I left and now is pretty stark. There was always shit and trash in NYC but now it is EVERYWHERE. Crime is way up by all metrics, including shootings and murders at >10 year highs with year over year increases of 30%-40%. You can still come to the touristy areas and be relatively safe and probably not get accosted by homeless people but for the people who live here quality of life is down. And that's coming from sheltered me living in midtown west in corporate housing. I can only imagine how it is in the South Bronx or Jamaica. Anyway I agree the right overblows these things but pretending quality of life in LA, SF, and NYC hasn't taken a hit in the past 10 years almost as silly imho. There's a reason why De Blasio and Garcetti are so deeply unpopular across the political spectrum.

[Moliere]

There was an ESPN article I read this morning but it's now behind their paywall. It basically discusses whether or not the Big 12 could lose its P5 status and concludes that it likely won't since it sounds like there needs to be some amount of a majority vote for them to lose that status. I wish I could see that part of the discussion as it walked through what is likely to happen, which is that the Big 12 doens't even really need to expand to reatain P5 status. It does implicitly say that adding BYU and Cincinnati helps bolster its P5 resume and the other conferences are not likely to vote to take away that status. However, the P5 designation might lose some teeth as they move to an expanded playoff format that take the top team from the top 6 conferences regardless of P5 status or not.

However, as we all know, just being P5 gives your schedule a lot more weight even if it's not really that much tougher. I suspect over the next couple years we'll consistetly see a Big 12 team or two in the top 10-15 just based on the fact they only have 1 or 2 losses. It'll be tough to get into the playoff without going undefeated unless the playoff expands.