The Big 12 expansion groundswell

[Bo Diddley]

250-1. I like those odds.

That's what I was thinking as well. I don't buy it though.

[Paperback Writer]

Clearly he doesn't know more about the Big 12/8 than I do. I don't care if he's a Nebraska fan. I'm right and he's wrong about this. I'm actually a student of conference history. And again, you miss the point.

Regardless, nobody is claiming Colorado made anything other than a lateral move, or that the Pac 12 taking Utah and Colorado was anything other than a win-win outcome in every way.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-foo...t-chaos-061115

Unfortunately, though, as Mandel notes, there have been losers.

Clearly you don't know more about the Big 8/12 than I do. And I think I know the PAC-12's history as well as you.

I'm well aware of Colorado and the Buffalos desire to join the PAC-10 which started decades earlier when the PAC-8 added the Arizona schools. For a long time, Colorado wanted out of the Big 8 and into the PAC-10. The problem was that Colorado historically struggled in the Big 8 behind Oklahoma and Nebraska. They were just not that attractive and their outreaches to the PAC-10 were rebuffed. Votes were taken at several times in the PAC-10 to consider adding Colorado and they never passed. The chance to bolt when the Big 12 was being formed was just another iteration. But that time, Colorado was actually good and the PAC-10 got more serious about Colorado. Pressure was applied to Colorado to stay in the Big 12 because the conference didn't want to add another team from the SWC - having to accept Baylor was bad enough. That was not the first time Colorado wanted to leave the Big 8 for the PAC-10. For as long as I remember, Colorado has viewed itself as a Western school and not a Midwestern institution.

I agree that Colorado was attractive to the PAC-10 and that the Buffalos were the PAC-10's primary target for expansion. What I don't agree is that the PAC-12 would have expanded if they could have held a CCG with 10 teams. You imply that yourself that the PAC-10 was "most self-satisfied and resistant to expansion".

[Jeff Lebowski]

Clearly you don't know more about the Big 8/12 than I do. And I think I know the PAC-12's history as well as you.

I'm well aware of Colorado and the Buffalos desire to join the PAC-10 which started decades earlier when the PAC-8 added the Arizona schools. For a long time, Colorado wanted out of the Big 8 and into the PAC-10. The problem was that Colorado historically struggled in the Big 8 behind Oklahoma and Nebraska. They were just not that attractive and their outreaches to the PAC-10 were rebuffed. Votes were taken at several times in the PAC-10 to consider adding Colorado and they never passed. The chance to bolt when the Big 12 was being formed was just another iteration. But that time, Colorado was actually good and the PAC-10 got more serious about Colorado. Pressure was applied to Colorado to stay in the Big 12 because the conference didn't want to add another team from the SWC - having to accept Baylor was bad enough. That was not the first time Colorado wanted to leave the Big 8 for the PAC-10. For as long as I remember, Colorado has viewed itself as a Western school and not a Midwestern institution.

I agree that Colorado was attractive to the PAC-10 and that the Buffalos were the PAC-10's primary target for expansion. What I don't agree is that the PAC-12 would have expanded if they could have held a CCG with 10 teams. You imply that yourself that the PAC-10 was "most self-satisfied and resistant to expansion".

Speaking of Colorado, I recently watched the 30-for-30 episode on Bill McCartney's tenure at Colorado. I remember many of the games featured in the series (including BYU bowl victory - swish), but but the inside story was fascinating. I had no idea that Boulder was such a racist place as recently as the 1980's. Coach Mac is a very likable guy. Highly recommended episode.

[old_gregg]

Speaking of Colorado, I recently watched the 30-for-30 episode on Bill McCartney's tenure at Colorado. I remember many of the games featured in the series (including BYU bowl victory - swish), but but the inside story was fascinating. I had no idea that Boulder was such a racist place as recently as the 1980's. Coach Mac is a very likable guy. Highly recommended episode.

don't you know that boulder makes salt lake look like a village?

[YOhio]

SU please stop trying to make us feel bad. Not cool, bro.

[Uncle Ted]

Yeah, we're in...

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[SeattleUte]

You are so full of crap that it isnt even worth making fun of you anymore.

Sticks and stones...

[SeattleUte]

Clearly you don't know more about the Big 8/12 than I do. And I think I know the PAC-12's history as well as you.

I'm well aware of Colorado and the Buffalos desire to join the PAC-10 which started decades earlier when the PAC-8 added the Arizona schools. For a long time, Colorado wanted out of the Big 8 and into the PAC-10. The problem was that Colorado historically struggled in the Big 8 behind Oklahoma and Nebraska. They were just not that attractive and their outreaches to the PAC-10 were rebuffed. Votes were taken at several times in the PAC-10 to consider adding Colorado and they never passed. The chance to bolt when the Big 12 was being formed was just another iteration. But that time, Colorado was actually good and the PAC-10 got more serious about Colorado. Pressure was applied to Colorado to stay in the Big 12 because the conference didn't want to add another team from the SWC - having to accept Baylor was bad enough. That was not the first time Colorado wanted to leave the Big 8 for the PAC-10. For as long as I remember, Colorado has viewed itself as a Western school and not a Midwestern institution.

I agree that Colorado was attractive to the PAC-10 and that the Buffalos were the PAC-10's primary target for expansion. What I don't agree is that the PAC-12 would have expanded if they could have held a CCG with 10 teams. You imply that yourself that the PAC-10 was "most self-satisfied and resistant to expansion".

Well, we know who was courting whom 25 years ago. What was happening 40 years ago? That's where we seem to disagree. I have your word for it but it's only of academic interest because that was a different world. Now Colorado doesn't have to contend with Oklahoma or Texas, but there is USC, Oregon et al. Not an easier gauntlet, is it.

[Bo Diddley]

It isn't "probable" for anyone. It's possible for any of us.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoot...cfb-title-odds

Just as I thought. We should have over 1.5 national championships each year.

[Paperback Writer]

Speaking of Colorado, I recently watched the 30-for-30 episode on Bill McCartney's tenure at Colorado. I remember many of the games featured in the series (including BYU bowl victory - swish), but but the inside story was fascinating. I had no idea that Boulder was such a racist place as recently as the 1980's. Coach Mac is a very likable guy. Highly recommended episode.

Thanks for the recommendation, I'll have to set up the DVR for it. I don't have a positive opinion of Bill McCartney; that is admittedly biased. But I've always had to square that view with the man who founded Promise Keepers.

For many years, Nebraska and Colorado had a cordial relationship on the gridiron. During one game in the 1970s, a Buffalo player experienced a severe neck injury and was hospitalized in Lincoln until he was stable enough to transport. During the wait, he received numerous cards and well wishes for his recovery. It was described as overwhelming. Then about 15 years later, there are fan taunts about the death of a Colorado QB who died young and unexpectedly of cancer. The good relations between the two programs had become poisoned. During that time, I attend a couple of games in Boulder and neither was a pleasant experience one. Much of that blame has been pinned on Bill McCartney and how he approached the annual Colorado-Nebraska game. Nebraska fans are generally a likable bunch, it takes much more than beating them with a final-play Hail Mary to get on their bad side. Even Oklahoma and Barry Switzer managed not to. But Bill McCartney and his Colorado Buffalos managed to poison the well. Nebraska fans are not blameless in this either. That's why I welcome a recommendation like 30-for-30; something I have enjoyed watching in the past.

[Paperback Writer]

Well, we know who was courting whom 25 years ago. What was happening 40 years ago? That's where we seem to disagree. I have your word for it but it's only of academic interest because that was a different world. Now Colorado doesn't have to contend with Oklahoma or Texas, but there is USC, Oregon et al. Not an easier gauntlet, is it.

I agree with you that Colorado is a good fit in the PAC-12. I don't think winning the PAC-12 was on Colorado's mind when the invite was extended. They had an easy division in the Big 12 North and they knew it. Colorado has wanted to join the PAC-12 fraternity because that's how they identify themselves. I'm shocked at the number of California students who attend CU and pay out-of-state tuition when they probably have better options in-state. Colorado's football recruiting has long had a base in California. Why would someone want to hang out with the squares and dummies from Nebraska, Kansas, Missouri, and Oklahoma when one can hang out with the cool and smart kids from California? And that's why I've mentioned that Colorado has been California dreaming for a long time. But the PAC-12 hasn't always been interested. When conference expansion became almost mandatory once Jim Delany announced Big Ten expansion; Colorado was going west.

[creekster]

Sticks and stones...

I wasn't calling you a name, just passing my personal judgment on the content you have been flinging around the last week or two, including this thread.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Thanks for the recommendation, I'll have to set up the DVR for it. I don't have a positive opinion of Bill McCartney; that is admittedly biased. But I've always had to square that view with the man who founded Promise Keepers.

For many years, Nebraska and Colorado had a cordial relationship on the gridiron. During one game in the 1970s, a Buffalo player experienced a severe neck injury and was hospitalized in Lincoln until he was stable enough to transport. During the wait, he received numerous cards and well wishes for his recovery. It was described as overwhelming. Then about 15 years later, there are fan taunts about the death of a Colorado QB who died young and unexpectedly of cancer. The good relations between the two programs had become poisoned. During that time, I attend a couple of games in Boulder and neither was a pleasant experience one. Much of that blame has been pinned on Bill McCartney and how he approached the annual Colorado-Nebraska game. Nebraska fans are generally a likable bunch, it takes much more than beating them with a final-play Hail Mary to get on their bad side. Even Oklahoma and Barry Switzer managed not to. But Bill McCartney and his Colorado Buffalos managed to poison the well. Nebraska fans are not blameless in this either. That's why I welcome a recommendation like 30-for-30; something I have enjoyed watching in the past.

Not only did the Nebraska fans mock the QB with cancer, they mocked the coach's daughter getting pregnant. Nebraska fans look horrible in this documentary. One the reasons I enjoyed it, TBH.

[creekster]

Not only did the Nebraska fans mock the QB with cancer, they mocked the coach's daughter getting pregnant. Nebraska fans look horrible in this documentary. One the reasons I enjoyed it, TBH.

Did it talk about McCartney and his involvement in the PromiseKeepers? I had a client who go deeply involved in that movement. At first it helped him a lot and then it ended up ruining his life. A very weird deal.

[pelagius]

Thanks for the recommendation, I'll have to set up the DVR for it.

It's on Netflix