The Big 12 expansion groundswell

[WashingtonCoug]

For the record I still think we end up in the Big 12, but we can definitely make independence work. I would rather be in the Big 12, but we'll be fine either way. I don't think we would be Arizona or Colorado in the Big 12. We have the ability to be a top tier team in any league except probably the SEC.

[Jeff Lebowski]

It's funny how you all project three games into eternity. Whatever makes you feel better. In the Celestial Kingdom we will experience eternal progression. You all can go ahead and enjoy your lollipop schedule in the Telestial kingdom with eternity to contemplate the terrible things that BYU did and continues to do to deserve this fate.

I am contemplating some terrible things you deserve for this declasse post.

[Flystripper]

BYU had so much demand for tickets playing WAC or sub-WAC foes like Bowling Green and Long Beach State that it required 20,000 seats (50% of capacity) expansion to the stadium. Since BYU started scheduling harder opponents 1-3 times a year in 1992 they only have 3-4 years of averaging a sell out.

So if BYU were to continue to win these harder games at the current % they are winning them you would see a need for the stadium to expand by 30,000 seats (50% of current capacity) when?

You are right. Attendance would suffer. BYU fans are stupid.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

It is true that BYU fans are stupid. However, I think that losing to the Big 12 teams would have less of an impact on attendance than losing to WAC teams.

It isn't BYU fans, it is all fans. Why didn't Utah start selling out games until 2003? Why didn't Oregon start selling out games until 1999? Why isn't USC selling out games now?

The bulk of fans are not die hard message board fans. The bulk want to come out and see the team win. This is where I think a lot of us have a disconnect, I would guess that 90% or more of the fans that buy tickets don't go to a message board once a week.

[Jeff Lebowski]

If we're so bad that we're going to be losing to WAC teams, we might as well quite right now. If we're losing to WAC teams, then we're getting blown out and shut out by Big 12 teams. Either of those scenarios means a half filled stadium or worse.

We should go ahead and drop down to Junior College status. We could win the NC every single year.

[Flystripper]

For the record I still think we end up in the Big 12, but we can definitely make independence work. I would rather be in the Big 12, but we'll be fine either way. I don't think we would be Arizona or Colorado in the Big 12. We have the ability to be a top tier team in any league except probably the SEC.

1. No BCS access unless ranked number 1 or 2. (not going to happen)
2. Horrible schedules especially home schedules.
3. Horrible Bowls
4. Less Money than Big 12 and total uncertainty once the ESPN contract is over
5. Basketball and other sports lost in the WCC

Yeah Independence will work great for destroying your athletic program in the long run.

[Flystripper]

It isn't BYU fans, it is all fans. Why didn't Utah start selling out games until 2003? Why didn't Oregon start selling out games until 1999? Why isn't USC selling out games now?

The bulk of fans are not die hard message board fans. The bulk want to come out and see the team win. This is where I think a lot of us have a disconnect, I would guess that 90% or more of the fans that buy tickets don't go to a message board once a week.

All fans expect SEC fans....so maybe stupid was the wrong word

[Omaha 680]

For the record I still think we end up in the Big 12, but we can definitely make independence work. I would rather be in the Big 12, but we'll be fine either way. I don't think we would be Arizona or Colorado in the Big 12. We have the ability to be a top tier team in any league except probably the SEC.

I don't get what you, Goat, and kc see that I'm not seeing that makes you think BYU goes to the Big 12. In my mind, the evidence is mounting they have no intention to do so under terms acceptable to the Big 12.

Wilner Agrees

Reaction IV: Despite a bevy on internet reports indicating BYU to the Big 12 was essentially a done deal, I have not confirmed that the parties are anywhere close. In fact, my sense is that the Big 12 would have to beg BYU, with concessions in hand, and it’s hard to to imagine that happening.

Reaction V: And without BYU, there is no way Boise State’s getting into the Big 12, despite the best behind-the-scenes efforts of president Bob Kustra. (It would have been tough for Boise State even with BYU.)

Reaction VI: Clearly, the two biggest realignment winners, dating back 18 months, are Utah and TCU. The Utes joined the Pac-12 just in time for a $3 billion TV deal while the Horned Frogs went from the Mountain West to the Big East to a league that has Texas and Oklahoma and isn’t in danger of losing its AQ status.

I would love to believe that we have some master plan to try to make the Big 12 work, but it doesn't look that way. The anger has subsided but the confusion and extreme disappointment are still there for me. What are we doing?

[byu71]

This is what the argument for independence over the B12 is. Winning fills the seats and provides donors it doesn't matter about the competition. When BYU was winning in the late 70s-early 90s they were playing garbage home schedules but winning almost every home game. They averaged 100%+ capacity. From 1992 when they started playing tougher home games and not winning all of them they stopped selling 100% of tickets.

I had this discussion once with BYU71 on CG.
http://cougarguard.com/forum/showpos...2&postcount=60

I don't know what my response was over there, but this is my response now. The eighties and early nineties was a new thing. You were indeed getting in on a bandwaggon. Not only did we win a lot, but we also did it in an exciting way.

However, normal people as time goes off have even higher expectations. Also, BYU capitalized on the interest and charge more for the tickets.

It was the late nineties when BYU raised a bunch of money for the indoor facility, etc. I guarantee you there pitch when they approached people for the dough was not that they were going to compete successfully in the MWC. Big time was the promise and we needed big time facilites.

During the Crowton years when the team sucked, go see where the sell outs where. I will bet they weren't for the crap teams where we expected a win.

[Coach McGuirk]

BYU had so much demand for tickets playing WAC or sub-WAC foes like Bowling Green and Long Beach State that it required 20,000 seats (50% of capacity) expansion to the stadium. Since BYU started scheduling harder opponents 1-3 times a year in 1992 they only have 3-4 years of averaging a sell out.

So if BYU were to continue to win these harder games at the current % they are winning them you would see a need for the stadium to expand by 30,000 seats (50% of current capacity) when?

HFN, if I were to dig into the numbers, would I find that the games against the top cometition were the ones sold out and the games not sold out were against inferior competition?

[TripletDaddy]

It isn't BYU fans, it is all fans. Why didn't Utah start selling out games until 2003? Why didn't Oregon start selling out games until 1999? Why isn't USC selling out games now?

The bulk of fans are not die hard message board fans. The bulk want to come out and see the team win. This is where I think a lot of us have a disconnect, I would guess that 90% or more of the fans that buy tickets don't go to a message board once a week.

I agree with you. This notion that a better schedule is going to be a panacea over time is silly, but Ute fans and BYU fans will have to find that out for themselves, I suppose.

I can't remember sitting at many SC games thinking to myself, "wow, I am just really happy to be playing Arizona and Wazzou and the Sun Devils every year. It is so exciting!"

Winning is the solution. The opposing schedule leads to increased price tickets . If the team is losing, the attendance will drop. Look at the ticket action over the past few weeks. ASU was in town and yet there were loads of tickets online on the secondary market, the day before the game most were for face or less. Fans are not enamored with the schedule. They are bummed that the Utes stink and have QB problems.

There is a reason very few BCS schools sell out all their home games, despite playing exciting BCS schedules every year.

[SteelBlue]

It's funny how you all project three games into eternity. Whatever makes you feel better.

I'm with SU on this one. We'd all give our left nut to be in the PAC so can we quit pretending Utah did something stupid? And SU, to be fair, many Ute fans are having problems with the same 3 game projections. Funny how we're reading things like "it will take 3 years of recruiting to catch up to the rest of the PAC", and "the game speed is just so much faster". Please. Utah just isn't very good this year without a healthy QB. Take most of the Ute teams from the past 5 years and things would have been just fine.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

HFN, if I were to dig into the numbers, would I find that the games against the top cometition were the ones sold out and the games not sold out were against inferior competition?

I've been looking for the links again to attendance, but without going game by game through box scores I can only find season averages.

[YOhio]

I don't think we can compare BYU's current situation to anything in CFB. It's rare to see a university choose to wallow in the midst of mediocrity and refuse an opportunity for a universal step up in conference, opponents, potential and money. Lavell era BYU always had something to prove because they were shut out of the Big Boy conferences, so fans adjusted accordingly and were able to play the victimized underdog role. Now, we have no card to play. We had the chance and blew it. Everyone knows it too and it will hurt everything; attendance, recruiting, fundraising, morale, national respect, etc. Utah will pounce on this and the gap will widen even more.

[Flystripper]

I don't think we can compare BYU's current situation to anything in CFB. It's rare to see a university choose to wallow in the midst of mediocrity and refuse an opportunity for a universal step up in conference, opponents, potential and money. Lavell era BYU always had something to prove because they were shut out of the Big Boy conferences, so fans adjusted accordingly and were able to play the victimized underdog role. Now, we have no card to play. We had the chance and blew it. Everyone knows it too and it will hurt everything; attendance, recruiting, fundraising, morale, national respect, etc. Utah will pounce on this and the gap will widen even more.

The sinking feeling in my gut tells m this is true.