The Big 12 expansion groundswell

[Paperback Writer]

Football quality. I'm confident that BYU would generally be in the top half of the Big 10. NW can't say that.

Northwestern is not far from the top half of the Big Ten. Generally, they could be considered in the top half.

Big Ten 2011-2012 Combined Results

If all of this happens, I will tell you that the biggest winner, by far, was TCU, which jumped into the B12 at a time when the B12 had very few other options, and did so despite the fact that TCU has a very small fan base and adds virtually no value market-wise (what does it do for the B12 from a media standpoint that Texas, Baylor, and TTech didn't already accomplish?).

You can guarantee that if this whole thing goes down that there will be teams left in the ACC that are more valuable overall than TCU, that would love to be in the B12, but that are excluded.

To answer the above bolded question, TCU gives Texas a reliable voting partner on conference issues. The Longhorns will be able to count on the votes of the other three Texas schools along with OU and by OU's influence, Okie St. That puts a majority of votes in Big Tex's pocket in a 10-team conference and at least half in a 12-team conference. That's why voices from Austin mentioned that there needed to be four Texas schools in the Big 12. It's correct to point out that TCU didn't add much in regards to market share. Fort Worth is close to travel to so it also has that advantage and TCU has been successful on the gridiron, but the big reason TCU was added was to maintain Longhorn influence in the Big 12.

[Shaka]

I'll say this. In my very limited communication with TH, he seems like a straight shooter who cares deeply about BYU athletics.

Me too.

With that said BYU certainly could have screwed up in the negotiations that lead to an invitation. I find the, "Invitation was never extended" argument to be a bit hollow.

[Green Monstah]

Me too.

With that said BYU certainly could have screwed up in the negotiations that lead to an invitation. I find the, "Invitation was never extended" argument to be a bit hollow.

Yeah, but I tend to believe that would not be because of TH, but the strange dynamic of the University. The fact is, the people who matter love them some independence.

[Shaka]

Yeah, but I tend to believe that would not be because of TH, but the strange dynamic of the University. The fact is, the people who matter love them some independence.

I agree. TH probably isn't the one who bungled this if it was indeed bungled.

Still I don't find the no invite answer to be very compelling. Factually it's correct but how far did negotiations get before the B12 lost interest?

[Winky Bach]

I agree. TH probably isn't the one who bungled this if it was indeed bungled.

Still I don't find the no invite answer to be very compelling. Factually it's correct but how far did negotiations get before the B12 lost interest?

Perhaps no one at BYU knows the answer. The B12 held the cards and probably communicated what they wanted to during that process.

[CardiacCoug]

I can't imagine why some morons think byu had an invitation and turned it down.
sorry to call some of you here morons.

People don't think BYU had an invitation to the Big 12.

People think BYU made unreasonable demands of the Big 12 when instead BYU should have been willing to agree to almost anything in return for an invite into the Big 12. Who was it that said here that when you're the nerd asked to sit at the table with the cool kids you don't start making demands?

[Winky Bach]

People don't think BYU had an invitation to the Big 12.

People think BYU made unreasonable demands of the Big 12 when instead BYU should have been willing to agree to almost anything in return for an invite into the Big 12. Who was it that said here that when you're the nerd asked to sit at the table with the cool kids you don't start making demands?

True, but there were only 2 really cool kids at the table and they were thinking about sneaking out to smoke weed in the bathroom. At the time it seemed like an okay idea to find out what was up before sitting down. In retrospect, the table would have still been worth sitting down at.

[wapiti]

True, but there were only 2 really cool kids at the table and they were thinking about sneaking out to smoke weed in the bathroom. At the time it seemed like an okay idea to find out what was up before sitting down. In retrospect, the table would have still been worth sitting down at.

BYU was sitting at an empty table. They were given the opportunity to sit at a full table that was missing a leg. If the table collapsed BYU could have easily gone back to an equivalent empty table. But it was foreseeable that those at the full table might fix the table.

[wapiti]

Northwestern is not far from the top half of the Big Ten. Generally, they could be considered in the top half.

Big Ten 2011-2012 Combined Results

2013 was their first bowl victory since 1949. They have been going an average of every other year but that's mostly due to soft non-conference schedules and the low bar to get to a bowl a game. I think if you ran the numbers over 10 years, they would be solidly in the bottom tier.

Also, Northwestern is also one of only 5 teams to have played 50 years of division 1 hoops and never made the NCAA tournament.

[Green Monstah]

2013 was their first bowl victory since 1949. They have been going an average of every other year but that's mostly due to soft non-conference schedules and the low bar to get to a bowl a game. I think if you ran the numbers over 10 years, they would be solidly in the bottom tier.

Also, Northwestern is also one of only 5 teams to have played 50 years of division 1 hoops and never made the NCAA tournament.

Especially in light of the fact that Iowa, Illinois, and Purdue have been uncharacteristically bad the last few years.

[Paperback Writer]

2013 was their first bowl victory since 1949. They have been going an average of every other year but that's mostly due to soft non-conference schedules and the low bar to get to a bowl a game. I think if you ran the numbers over 10 years, they would be solidly in the bottom tier.

Also, Northwestern is also one of only 5 teams to have played 50 years of division 1 hoops and never made the NCAA tournament.

I still don't think Northwestern is as bad of a football team as you insinuate. And we can debate whether BYU would be as successful in the Big Ten as Northwestern but that would be speculation. Northwestern is comparable to Michigan St and Purdue in Big Ten play since 2000. At any rate, Northwestern is not "solidly in the bottom tier".

Big Ten Standings 2000-2012

Especially in light of the fact that Iowa, Illinois, and Purdue have been uncharacteristically bad the last few years.

Illinois has been bad for some time (see table above). Two winning and two .500 seasons in the Big Ten since 2000.

[Winky Bach]

BYU was sitting at an empty table. They were given the opportunity to sit at a full table that was missing a leg. If the table collapsed BYU could have easily gone back to an equivalent empty table. But it was foreseeable that those at the full table might fix the table.

BYU fans accept this as gospel truth, but I am not sure they really had a chance to sit down.

Plus, I am not sure ESPN would hold the table open for BYU.

[Jacob]

People don't think BYU had an invitation to the Big 12.

People think BYU made unreasonable demands of the Big 12 when instead BYU should have been willing to agree to almost anything in return for an invite into the Big 12. Who was it that said here that when you're the nerd asked to sit at the table with the cool kids you don't start making demands?

BYU was sitting at an empty table. They were given the opportunity to sit at a full table that was missing a leg. If the table collapsed BYU could have easily gone back to an equivalent empty table. But it was foreseeable that those at the full table might fix the table.

You guys have no basis to believe any of this. Holmoe says it ain't so. Nobody of consequence says otherwise. I believe him.

[The_Douger]

You guys have no basis to believe any of this. Holmoe says it ain't so. Nobody of consequence says otherwise. I believe him.

Because the AD is going to come out and tell us exactly what happened, right?

[Maximus]

Mods, can we please close this depressing thread? TIA