The Big 12 expansion groundswell

[Viking]

That's because OU pays all the national merit scholars from Texas lots and lots of money to go to school there.



I have found this to be the case.

True. The only thing of substance I did (other than smoke a few substances) in high school was I was Texas state debate runner up (5A) and for that reason OU sent me some material and forms...but I never followed up.

OU has a great med research program from what I understand.

[Pheidippides]

Another perspective:

Now that BYU is no longer an "automatic" admission for LDS kids (especially RMs) from Southern California - it hasn't been that for at least 15 years, maybe more - lots of parents are interested in finding an alternative school that will give their kids a chance to go to college with a strong LDS church environment, even if that's off-campus. One reason for this is to have a larger pool of potential marriage partners. (Often the kids are the ones thinking of this factor as much as the parents do.)

UVU (in its various iterations over the years) has long been considered BYU Lite. So has USU. Dixie College was seen as a way for kids to get their feet wet in college. SUU has become popular. For parents and kids who are quite serious about school and want the best graduate school options, USU and the U of U seem to be the top options in Utah apart from BYU. Three kids from my ward have ended up at the U in the last 6-7 years. (The alumni "legacy" tuition break there has helped an awful lot to make that choice more acceptable.) The U is not the right choice for every LDS kid from out of state, but the extremely strong Institute program make it attractive.

It is, after all, the flagship university in the Utah system of higher education, much like Oregon, Arizona, Washington, and Colorado are. Interestingly, I am mainly aware of those universities because of their athletics programs, and although I wouldn't necessarily have them on the list for my kids to attend, if those school's names were suggested to me as possibilities, I'd at least recognize them favorably as PAC-12 institutions. I think that recognition is one thing the U hopes to gain from membership in that conference.

I understand and don't disagree that there is that demographic. However, from my perspective, there is little to no difference between the U and the University of Houston. I would not recommend my kid attend either if more options were available.

Ftr, I wouldn't attend BYU necessarily if I had to do it over, but that's for a different thread.

[Viking]

I understand and don't disagree that there is that demographic. However, from my perspective, there is little to no difference between the U and the University of Houston. I would not recommend my kid attend either if more options were available.

Ftr, I wouldn't attend BYU necessarily if I had to do it over, but that's for a different thread.

Ditto. Not going to Duke or UT remains the single largest error I've ever made. BYU was the worst experience of my life but I will always love the sports.

[SoonerCoug]

I am super duper proud that I attended BYU because it's just a downright awesome conversation starter. Not everyone can say they went to a school named after someone with 50 wives.

[Blueintheface]

Red Legger, you need to post here more often, false hope or not.

On the current thread tangent of academiics, I will be attending the U next year for graduate school.

[hostile]

Red Legger, you need to post here more often, false hope or not.

On the current thread tangent of academiics, I will be attending the U next year for graduate school.

Don't do it. I wish I was aware of all the negatives associated with a degree from Utah. I would do things differently given the chance

[LA Ute]

Red Legger, you need to post here more often, false hope or not.

On the current thread tangent of academiics, I will be attending the U next year for graduate school.

Welcome to future Utah alumni-hood! Maybe you'll be OK if we get you one of these to take to class with you every day:

:condom:

[doctorcoug]

Their mom is brilliant and their grandparents even moreso.

ROFLMAO

Dad is a genius and, when I grow up, someday he will tell me "everything that happened." I still get that statement from him.

It was only recent that I realized he sells life insurance for a living, not the jet trotting millionaire "estate planner" he portrayed.

I wouldn't be shocked if his former boss from Dallas ended up on TV in a ponzi scheme.

[statman]

A&M's departure leaves Texas, Texas Tech, and Baylor in stable situations.

???

A&M's departure is what made the Big 12 really unstable - especially because they're going to the SEC, meaning that the SEC is now actively pursuing a "Super Conference" strategy. Every conference now has to react. Those who try to wait things out will cease to exist.

Prior to A&M leaving, the Big 12 was relatively stable. They needed two teams to get them back to the 12-team equilibrium that brought in tens of millions of dollars in extra TV money and a championship game. With the new lay of the land, the Big 12 is now a big heap of road kill and the vultures are circling overhead. The conference that reacts first will get the pick of the carcass - the best parts, and before rot sets in.

Any Texas politician who didn't see all of this unfolding when they gave their blessing to A&M leaving is an idiot.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Don't do it. I wish I was aware of all the negatives associated with a degree from Utah. I would do things differently given the chance

Looking back I would have done it differently as well. I even got a chance to change midstream and go to Texas, when my wife was offered a teaching/research position. Turning that down may have been the biggest mistake we ever made., followed shortly by my persuading her to turn down the going to the BSN/Man program in the I'd nursing school. Man I am a huge idiot sometimes.

That said, what are some of these shortcomings to which you refer?

[statman]

That's seems overly harsh. To compare Utah and UVU (even tangentially) is absurd.

Utah is not in the same league as Cal, Standford, UCLA, USC, but they are a good school with some excellent programs, strong research, and a bright future. Other than the rivalry thing, I wouldn't have a problem sending a child there.

UVU is a weird place. They've already got more students than UofU (true, more part timers, and far fewer grads), WAY more students than USU, and about the same number as BYU. They've got a couple grad programs, including a MS in nursing, an MBA program that says it'll be fully AACSB accredited in a few years, and they are pursuing having their first law school class graduate prior to 2020. They're planning on offering graduate programs in every major area of the school. And the expansion is being funded by the large numbers of out-of-staters (about 1/3 of all students attending) who pay about 4X instate tuition to attend. they bring in more total tuition money from the out-of-staters than from the in-staters.

The other thing that has really helped USU grow - especially in the out-of-state population - was when BYU decided to give the "BYU Approved Housing" seal of approval to places that let non-BYU students live there. Now parents from CA can send their less academically (or athletically) gifted HS grads to UVU and have them live with kids in BYU housing, BYU wards, BYU activities, etc.

It'll be interesting to see what UVU looks like in a decade.

[Cougarmandias]

I loved my BYU experience, and will push for my kids to go there (i care more about having lots of cute little grandkids than I do about them making it big), but it probably helps that I buy into the whole Mormon thing and that I went there reluctantly, for financial reasons, expecting to hate the Total Mormon Experience. If I'd gone expecting it to be an idyll, I probably would have been a little soured. Expectations matter a lot.

[Viking]

ROFLMAO

Dad is a genius and, when I grow up, someday he will tell me "everything that happened." I still get that statement from him.

It was only recent that I realized he sells life insurance for a living, not the jet trotting millionaire "estate planner" he portrayed.

I wouldn't be shocked if his former boss from Dallas ended up on TV in a ponzi scheme.

Ha, actually I think that guy went to jail for securities fraud.

[statman]

Expect this to be resolved w/ BYU in the Big 12 by game time this Saturday.

In the Big-12's current state, BYU won't be going to the Big 12 alone. I doubt they'd want to be there unless/until it's at least a 12-team league. In the current environment - if A&M really does leave to go the SEC - I think it's easier to envision big chunks of the Big 12 going elsewhere (with BYU - for BYU's sake), than it is to envision BYU and two other teams signing on for a 12-team Big 12. If A&M were to announce that it's not leaving (& of course, that the SEC isn't expanding), BYU would be a great fit into the Big 12.

If A&M doesn't actually come back, the Big 12 won't be a safe place until it gets to 16 teams, which means adding 7 -ND (a longshot!), BYU, Louisville, TCU, AFA, and then who? Cincinnati? Pitt? Memphis? West Virginia?

Big 12 is a long way from stability.

But I do think the Big (L)East is less stable.

[SeattleUte]

This is fir Nik, too blue and Viking.

First, troll seems to me a supremely mindless charge. Like defaulting to profanity when you're mad as hell and the right words elude you. What is a troll? Isn't it somebody who manipulates emotions with statements he may not really hold or believe, sincerity being secondary to the objective of evoking reaction?

How could anyone doubt my sincerity? I was born a seventh generation Mormon, lived in Salt Lake or on a mission from ages 7 to 24, have family who have been BYU professors and administrators. I know a lot about BYU, and I don't like much that I know about BYU. I really don't. I'm not trolling. I actually do dislike BYU, and I'm not alone. The PAC administrators feel exactly as I do about BYU (yet, as I've said, the BYU professors are mostly amazing and good individuals). (I was actually disappointed in the hostile reaction initially by Husky alumni at Michael Young because of his BYU degree.)

So, Nik, for me, BYU is at the left side of indifference. As for Utah, in a nutshell, here is why it is special: it is the only university of it's kind in a vast five state region. I've said that Utah is a poor man's UW, but really I think it's a little more than that. You may retort that this vast five state region puts you to sleep. I can see why you might say that on some level. But one of the pleasures of moving away from your rots and getting a little older is that when you return you see your original homeland with fresh eyes. This was reinforced when I spent the past week in Jackson Hole after a 25 year absence.