The Big 12 expansion groundswell

[Babs]

I'm talking about connections to the BYU athletic department and inside info regarding conference expansion!

I know. We're all connected to SeattleUte, therefore we're all connected to BYU.

[Babs]

Nothing secret about it, either. It always puzzles me when people act surprised by it. It has always been this way. You see fewer non-LDS faculty hired these days because it is becoming quite rare to have a position with no qualified LDS candidates. And the courts established long ago that religious organizations can use religion as a factor in hiring decisions.

Clearly it's legal. I was just surprised in light of the implications for BYU's academic reputation.

[Uncle Ted]

Clearly it's legal. I was just surprised in light of the implications for BYU's academic reputation.

It seems BYU has a good pool of LDS PhD grads to pick from...

Because BYU is primarily an undergraduate institution, each year several hundred new graduates like Daniel fan out across the country after gaining acceptance to Ph.D. programs at other universities.

Over the past decade, 2,442 of BYU’s graduates have earned Ph.D.s. That figure makes BYU 10th in the country as a Ph.D. launching pad – and there are signs of an upward trend.

Looking at just the past five years of data, BYU ranks 5th in the country as a Ph.D. launch pad – ahead of schools like Harvard, Stanford and Yale.

[OrangeUte]

It seems BYU has a good pool of LDS PhD grads to pick from...

To me this is the value of a byu education. It gets kids into grad schools with excellent reputations. But it has very little research or post grad reputation beyond law and accounting. BYU and its alumni should be proud of that. Byu has a lot of smart kids that are only there bc it is an affordable church school. that definitely increases the value of its education.

[Coach McGuirk]

http://www.theupsetblog.com/2011/08/....html?spref=tw

[Babs]

It is difficult to take seriously any report that begins with:

BYU was contacted by the BigXII in regards to conference membership yesterday

[DapperDan]

[url]

I'm going to pray with my heads towards South Bend now to better align myself with Notre Dame.

[SeattleUte]

Ox, I read your rational post and wondered what someone would argue against what you posted. Then I clicked on the link and saw...

Your position seems to mirror mine. Religious bigotry did not preclude BYU as much as a difference in approaches and academic "values." it is disingenuous for a BYU supporter to ignore the issues of academic freedom, staffing, upward mobility, and to a certain extent sexism in its current practices. These sorts of things turn off some schools. And reasonably so.

That being said, I just don't think those same issues are issues in the Big 12. Ironically, I think there are probably more traditional Mormon "bigots" the closer geographically you get to the Bible belt, yet BYU has a better chance of inclusion as a university there. Again, because "bigotry" really isn't at play in these decisions.

This is well stated. However, in case you've missed it, my point has been that the academic communities in Berkeley, Palo Alto, Los Angeles, Seattle, Austin, Norman, And Lawrence are not so difference from one another. Hell, I've known many members of the academic communities at BYU and Utah and they are similar to one another and those places. The difference is that the academic communities have the power at the universities other than BYU but LDS general authorities run things at BYU. We'll see if I'm right that this will keep BYU out of the Big 12 just as it did the PAC.

[SeattleUte]

You are serious with this? US News?

Uh, my citation to U.S. news was a way to address you on your terms. The U.S. news rankings are the exclusive basis for BYU fans' belief that BYU academics are superior to Utah's (but the difference in U.S. News rankings is not that great). What else? SAT scores? We all know state law skews those at public universities, extremely at Utah. Besides, I don't accept BYU's at face value. The mother is not known to value truth above an image it strives to project.

[San Juan Sun]

Uh, my citation to U.S. news was a way to address you on your terms. The U.S. news rankings are the exclusive basis for BYU fans' belief that BYU academics are superior to Utah's (but the difference in U.S. News rankings is not that great). What else? SAT scores? We all know state law skews those at public universities, extremely at Utah. Besides, I don't accept BYU's at face value. The mother is not known to value truth above an image it strives to project.

Your posts on this subject are a fascinating exercise in hopeful schadenfreude.

Many of your Ute colleagues, no doubt satisfied with Utah's place in the PAC-12, wish BYU well in getting into a BCS conference. Where exactly does your animosity come from?

[LA Ute]

It's not a mystery.

http://www.cougarboard.com/board/mes...tml?id=5628243

The text, in case you're allergic to CB links:

How BYU discriminates against non-Mormons....

This is a very well-reasoned post. I think (and hope, frankly) that everyone's right in predicting that the Big 12 won't be as worried as other conferences might be about BYU's uniqueness. I don't know, for example, that Baylor is much different in key respects. I would really like to see BYU in the Big 12.

I would like to make one comment, though, in the hope it's helpful. There are some BYU fans of the CB type (I haven't seen them here; Dick Harmon's one of them) who seem to think the PAC-12 surveyed the Western college football landscape and said, "Whom should we consider? BYU or Utah? We'd really like to take BYU, but they won't fit, so we'll take Utah."

I'm caricaturing that view a little, but that is really not the way it went down. BYU was never in the discussion, according to all the information I've had. That's not a knock on BYU at all, for reasons cited in the post ox quotes. BYU is clearly in the Big 12 discussion, and seems to have been all along.

I'm not posting this to be inflammatory, just trying to add to the conversation.

[SeattleUte]

Your posts on this subject are a fascinating exercise in hopeful schadenfreude.

Many of your Ute colleagues, no doubt satisfied with Utah's place in the PAC-12, wish BYU well in getting into a BCS conference. Where exactly does your animosity come from?

I have no animus. I'm just trying to help.

[Babs]

I have no animus. I'm just trying to help.

That's fine, but you sure come across as defensive.

[falafel]

I have no animus. I'm just trying to help.

Help what?

[SeattleUte]

That's fine, but you sure come across as defensive.

No I don't.