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  • The end of innocence

    This is the loss of innocence. I have no antipathy to the Utes for leaving the MWC and turning their faces towards the Pacific. I would have been very pleased if BYU would have been able to do the same thing. But I can tell you that IMO this change will cause a much greater loss than fans of either school now appreciate.

    Fans of these two schools are Utahans. You may be a Ute or cougar fan, but both fan bases are comprised of Utahans. When I use that term here, I don’t mean literally from Utah (I haven’t lived in Utah for over 30 years), I mean someone with a Utah mentality; Someone who is a strange combination of fierce independence and the need to be accepted. Utah was founded largely by pioneers who were rugged and devoted to a cause and who were creative and able survivors in a hard scrabble land. They survived despite the world’s views and opinions and they prospered despite social ostracism. Even so, they always wanted to be accepted by the world and wanted to become part of the mainstream. It is an odd combination that makes us do odd things. Moreover, being ostracized by the world, we turned inward and made due with opportunities we created among our own. .

    BYU and Utah is such a great rivalry because it really is a civil war. It is a battle between two great schools and one great people. It is Cain and Abel. It is a rivalry of self. This is why when BYU or Utah played a big game outside of the rivalry, many if not most fans of the other school paid attention and even openly rooted for them. Because even though we wanted to beat them so badly, we still wanted family to do well.

    This is now gone. The Utes now see themselves as different, as being accepted, as being part of the mainstream (isn’t this really what all of SU’s bleating has been about the last few weeks?) and they will no longer look at BYU the same way. (Ironically, I don’t think they will ever be accepted within the Pac-12; they will be the Mormon school, the Johnny come latelys. I have a partner who still looks at the AZ schools that way. Utah will be no different. SU is, after all, right about some of this but his hope that the move will allow Utah to leave the baggage of the culture behind will be unfulfilled. Instead, the baggage will only become heavier.)

    BYU sees itself as the brother scorned. Left behind to fend for itself. It is proud and, let’s be honest, it saw Utah follow the trail that BYU blazed to a new conference and it is a bitter pill to swallow. This move plays right into all the insecurities that all Utahans have. It is a difficult place to be. BYU will never look at the rivalry the same way again. It is just different.

    BYU might go to the Big 12. It might stay in the MWC. It is hard to say. But Utah, having taken this step, cannot help but feel that the rivalry with BYU is somehow slightly beneath it now, that mustering that sort of enthusiasm for a non-PAC-12 team is unseemly. BYU, having been left behind, cannot help but feel abandoned and bitter. Its enthusiasm for the rivalry will be undermined by its own desires to prove that Utah’s move was simply not that important.

    The rivalry as we have known it is no more. Like good brothers, we will bid each other farewell and wish each other the best, and we will mean it. But the loss of innocence is irrevocable and the state of feeling is irreplaceable.

    So it goes.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  • #2
    Cuffie Nomination...
    "The first thing I learned upon becoming a head coach after fifteen years as an assistant was the enormous difference between making a suggestion and making a decision."

    "They talk about the economy this year. Hey, my hairline is in recession, my waistline is in inflation. Altogether, I'm in a depression."

    "I like to bike. I could beat Lance Armstrong, only because he couldn't pass me if he was behind me."

    -Rick Majerus

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by creekster View Post
      This is the loss of innocence. I have no antipathy to the Utes for leaving the MWC and turning their faces towards the Pacific. I would have been very pleased if BYU would have been able to do the same thing. But I can tell you that IMO this change will cause a much greater loss than fans of either school now appreciate.

      Fans of these two schools are Utahans. You may be a Ute or cougar fan, but both fan bases are comprised of Utahans. When I use that term here, I don’t mean literally from Utah (I haven’t lived in Utah for over 30 years), I mean someone with a Utah mentality; Someone who is a strange combination of fierce independence and the need to be accepted. Utah was founded largely by pioneers who were rugged and devoted to a cause and who were creative and able survivors in a hard scrabble land. They survived despite the world’s views and opinions and they prospered despite social ostracism. Even so, they always wanted to be accepted by the world and wanted to become part of the mainstream. It is an odd combination that makes us do odd things. Moreover, being ostracized by the world, we turned inward and made due with opportunities we created among our own. .

      BYU and Utah is such a great rivalry because it really is a civil war. It is a battle between two great schools and one great people. It is Cain and Abel. It is a rivalry of self. This is why when BYU or Utah played a big game outside of the rivalry, many if not most fans of the other school paid attention and even openly rooted for them. Because even though we wanted to beat them so badly, we still wanted family to do well.

      This is now gone. The Utes now see themselves as different, as being accepted, as being part of the mainstream (isn’t this really what all of SU’s bleating has been about the last few weeks?) and they will no longer look at BYU the same way. (Ironically, I don’t think they will ever be accepted within the Pac-12; they will be the Mormon school, the Johnny come latelys. I have a partner who still looks at the AZ schools that way. Utah will be no different. SU is, after all, right about some of this but his hope that the move will allow Utah to leave the baggage of the culture behind will be unfulfilled. Instead, the baggage will only become heavier.)

      BYU sees itself as the brother scorned. Left behind to fend for itself. It is proud and, let’s be honest, it saw Utah follow the trail that BYU blazed to a new conference and it is a bitter pill to swallow. This move plays right into all the insecurities that all Utahans have. It is a difficult place to be. BYU will never look at the rivalry the same way again. It is just different.

      BYU might go to the Big 12. It might stay in the MWC. It is hard to say. But Utah, having taken this step, cannot help but feel that the rivalry with BYU is somehow slightly beneath it now, that mustering that sort of enthusiasm for a non-PAC-12 team is unseemly. BYU, having been left behind, cannot help but feel abandoned and bitter. Its enthusiasm for the rivalry will be undermined by its own desires to prove that Utah’s move was simply not that important.

      The rivalry as we have known it is no more. Like good brothers, we will bid each other farewell and wish each other the best, and we will mean it. But the loss of innocence is irrevocable and the state of feeling is irreplaceable.

      So it goes.
      Very nicely stated.

      Comment


      • #4
        good post and it sums up what I have been trying to say in bits and pieces for over 150 posts or so. It makes me sad to see the rivalry end. (you are kidding yourself if you think this won't kill the rivalry) If we were leaving the Utes behind it would make me equally sad. I would never suggest that the Utes should say no to the wonderful opportunity that is before them, but it does make me sad for myself and my own enjoyment of BYU and Utah sports.
        Dyslexics are teople poo...

        Comment


        • #5
          "Taps" needs to be played while reading this.
          "Either evolution or intelligent design can account for the athlete, but neither can account for the sports fan." - Robert Brault

          "Once I seen the trades go down and the other guys signed elsewhere," he said, "I knew it was my time now." - Derrick Favors

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Flystripper View Post
            good post and it sums up what I have been trying to say in bits and pieces for over 150 posts or so. It makes me sad to see the rivalry end. (you are kidding yourself if you think this won't kill the rivalry) If we were leaving the Utes behind it would make me equally sad. I would never suggest that the Utes should say no to the wonderful opportunity that is before them, but it does make me sad for myself and my own enjoyment of BYU and Utah sports.
            Honestly, this mostly all I have been trying to say also (in between a few digs ). the rivalry is done. It cannot be rebuilt. In all sincerity I wish Utah the best, may the University and fans be happy with their choice.

            Comment


            • #7
              This has become a drama queen's dream.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by mUUser View Post
                This has become a drama queen's dream.


                so we all should pretend that it isn't a big deal when it is?
                Dyslexics are teople poo...

                Comment


                • #9
                  I think the impact of this move is lost to no one. Some of us may be in denial, but deep down we know the truth of it all. The fortunes of BYU may have been the culmination of a perfect storm: the right coach, the right mentality, the right priorities by the university, at the right time. Who knows if another storm blows our way again. BYU will be forced to reevaluate its priorities now. Who knows what those priorities will be. But this is a momentous change in the relationship. For better or worse, it is irreversible.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I am equally by mUUers' comments.
                    Last edited by tooblue; 06-16-2010, 11:45 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      ...the end of innocence?....bid thee farewell?....a brother scorned?

                      a bit much for my tastes.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        One thing that I've learned in my short 40 years on this planet, is that nothing ever stays the same. The only thing that is constant, is change.

                        If, in fact the rivalry dies (I'm not certain it will, although the dynamics will almost certainly change), I will have enjoyed it for what it was. No use crying over the fact that it is gone. You just have to keep moving forward.

                        It is akin to what The Eagles sang in "The Last Resort": "You call someplace paradise, kiss it goodbye".

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by tooblue View Post
                          lol ... It's no big deal is it -- equally
                          It is a big deal to those that value the history and tradition of the BYU / Utah rivalry. I know this is loss is no big deal to you. You don't appear to value the rivalry. That is ok it is your prerogative.

                          My family has had a tradition of attending ever BYU /Utah football games together. In the last 15 years I have missed one game. My In laws are all Ute fans and Crimson club members. This rivalry is a big part of my college football spectator enjoyment. Does it make up my entire enjoyment? No, but a big piece of tradition and what I like about college football is taking a hit with this. I will pick up the pieces and move on, but there will be a missing void that no Boise State can ever hope to fill.
                          Dyslexics are teople poo...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Flystripper View Post
                            It is a big deal to those that value the history and tradition of the BYU / Utah rivalry. I know this is loss is no big deal to you. You don't appear to value the rivalry. That is ok it is your prerogative.

                            My family has had a tradition of attending ever BYU /Utah football games together. In the last 15 years I have missed one game. My In laws are all Ute fans and Crimson club members. This rivalry is a big part of my college football spectator enjoyment. Does it make up my entire enjoyment? No, but a big piece of tradition and what I like about college football is taking a hit with this. I will pick up the pieces and move on, but there will be a missing void that no Boise State can ever hope to fill.
                            Sorry, my attempt to agree with you was clumsy. I was equally confused by mUUser's comments. I agree that a big piece of tradition has taken a hit and that Boise will never be able to fill the void. But there is no going back now and a Boise or TCU is all we've got.

                            As an aside, I am the only BYU fan in a family of Utes. Quite frankly I don't think I will ever talk college football with them again. I'm not interested.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Good post. I wouldn't describe the significance of the split in the same way, but I think it's equally significant.

                              I describe it more simply in business terms. BYU and Utah are fighting over a finite pool of resources (LDS/Utah sphere--you do a good job defining it as Utahns). Right now, BYU is way ahead. Utah mostly makes up for that gap with its ability to cross over to non-Utahn resources, but is still behind. With this change, Utah slowly over time gains the advantage in the Utahn sphere and advances in the non-Utahn sphere. Long term it's a death blow to BYU if they can't get in a BCS conference.

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