So where does Max end up among BYU QB's?

[Hallelujah]

It depends on what scale you're using. I'd think after his post-game comments he'd certainly have to be considered most douchy. I can't imagine any of the greats behaving like that.

Given what he and his family went through last year and since then, I can see why he said what he said. And that probably, as much as winning the game, probably solidifed his position among the top QB's at BYU.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

Hall is firmly in between Beck and Walsh. Beck could have been one of the great ones if he didn't have to deal with all the Crowton turmoil and the transition to a new coach. Beck's senior year was faaaarrr better than Hall's. Beck could have been higher on the list if he had played the last three seasons with BYU's supporting cast.

The undisputed top 3 are McMahon, Young and Detmer. The next group is Bosco, Wilson, Nielson, and Sarkisian. I think you then have to put Doman and Beck in the next group above the likes of Hall, Walsh and Feterik. Doman got hosed because the team seemed hell bent on putting Charlie Suck Ass Peterson in front of him. Engemann was at least highly recruited, but Doman initially should have been right behind him. Beck got hosed with having to suffer through the last two years of the Crowton train wreck and then dealing with a change in the offense and coaching staff.

[Hallelujah]

Hall is firmly in between Beck and Walsh. Beck could have been one of the great ones if he didn't have to deal with all the Crowton turmoil and the transition to a new coach. Beck's senior year was faaaarrr better than Hall's. Beck could have been higher on the list if he had played the last three seasons with BYU's supporting cast.

The undisputed top 3 are McMahon, Young and Detmer. The next group is Bosco, Wilson, Nielson, and Sarkisian. I think you then have to put Doman and Beck in the next group above the likes of Hall, Walsh and Feterik. Doman got hosed because the team seemed hell bent on putting Charlie Suck Ass Peterson in front of him. Engemann was at least highly recruited, but Doman initially should have been right behind him. Beck got hosed with having to suffer through the last two years of the Crowton train wreck and then dealing with a change in the offense and coaching staff.

Bronco would say that Hall should be among the top 3-5 since he won more games than any other QB.

[byu71]

Hall is firmly in between Beck and Walsh. Beck could have been one of the great ones if he didn't have to deal with all the Crowton turmoil and the transition to a new coach. Beck's senior year was faaaarrr better than Hall's. Beck could have been higher on the list if he had played the last three seasons with BYU's supporting cast.

The undisputed top 3 are McMahon, Young and Detmer. The next group is Bosco, Wilson, Nielson, and Sarkisian. I think you then have to put Doman and Beck in the next group above the likes of Hall, Walsh and Feterik. Doman got hosed because the team seemed hell bent on putting Charlie Suck Ass Peterson in front of him. Engemann was at least highly recruited, but Doman initially should have been right behind him. Beck got hosed with having to suffer through the last two years of the Crowton train wreck and then dealing with a change in the offense and coaching staff.

I know this is just opinion, but what games do you think Beck would have won that Max didn't?

[Color Me Badd Fan]

I know this is just opinion, but what games do you think Beck would have won that Max didn't?

Tulsa and the bowl game last year at least. Given the five or six picks he threw in last year's Utah game, I would say that BYU could have possibly beaten Utah last year also. I don't think senior Max Hall would have beaten TCU in 2006.

Also, I have to admit being a big fan of Beck given the crap he put up with and finishing very strong. He was involved with the single greatest play and game in the history of the rivalry (at least from a BYU fan's perspective). Hall was involved with the third greatest play- Austin 4:18. Doman has #2 with the 4th and 13 conversion on the road in LaVell's last game.

[UtahDan]

Hall will be remembered for 1) 5 INTs & a fumble vs. Utah in 2008, 2) what he said tonight, 3) winning a bunch of games no one remembers except for Oklahoma this year, and the two Ute wins, and those will be bitter sweet.

I'm not being mean, just honest. Go to Utefans and you'll see he made their night. Tonight he finished defining himself for history.

I had to laugh when my wife read me what he said. My first reaction was, well, good for him I guess, just makes the rivalry better. Then my second thought was, the guy had a great career, broke a lot of records, just put it to his rival and uses that moment to let us all know that Utah is in his head?

The funniest part about it to me is that he says fans poured beer on his family. No one likes to have a drink poured on them, true. But you have to believe that in Max's world someone might as well have poured acid all over his family. Or urine. Its like they got doused in liquid evil. That part really made me chuckle. Not one part of it did anything other than tickle me.

I don't know where to rank him.

[byu71]

Tulsa and the bowl game last year at least. Given the five or six picks he threw in last year's Utah game, I would say that BYU could have possibly beaten Utah last year also. I don't think senior Max Hall would have beaten TCU in 2006.

Also, I have to admit being a big fan of Beck given the crap he put up with and finishing very strong. He was involved with the single greatest play and game in the history of the rivalry (at least from a BYU fan's perspective). Hall was involved with the third greatest play- Austin 4:18. Doman has #2 with the 4th and 13 conversion on the road in LaVell's last game.

My comment was not a put down of Beck. Comparing Hall to Beck is a positive comment about Hall, not a put down of Beck. Maybe to some others who are down on Hall, it would be, but not me.

[ERCougar]

I had to laugh when my wife read me what he said. My first reaction was, well, good for him I guess, just makes the rivalry better. Then my second thought was, the guy had a great career, broke a lot of records, just put it to his rival and uses that moment to let us all know that Utah is in his head?

The funniest part about it to me is that he says fans poured beer on his family. No one likes to have a drink poured on them, true. But you have to believe that in Max's world someone might as well have poured acid all over his family. Or urine. Its like they got doused in liquid evil. That part really made me chuckle. Not one part of it did anything other than tickle me.

I don't know where to rank him.

You're stereotyping again. Call me crazy, but I have to believe that Hall has seen beer before. A stereotyping Ute fan most certainly has fallen back on this idea before, no?

Oh--and regardless of supporting cast, I don't know how you put the all time winningest QB at BYU anywhere but at least the "very good" category.

[UtahDan]

You're stereotyping again. Call me crazy, but I have to believe that Hall has seen beer before. A stereotyping Ute fan most certainly has fallen back on this idea before, no?

Oh--and regardless of supporting cast, I don't know how you put the all time winningest QB at BYU anywhere but at least the "very good" category.

Maybe I am, but can't you see the humor in it even a little? I'm not upset at the guy, he said something emotional after a win. It isn't what you would have wanted him to say, but I don't feel any offense whatsoever about it. If it reflects on any one, and I'm not sure it does, it is him. And again, my reaction is bemusement. I mean, is anyone surprised that Ute fans are talking about it? Would you guys have said "ho hum" if one of our seniors said that and we had won? Of course not, we would all be talking about it. I imagine it might be a teeny tiny bit embarrassing to some, which is why they want to move on from it, I understand that. But emotional energy is going to go somewhere after a game for defeated fans, just as it did for 'ol Max.

I assume that second sentence isn't for me. But I will say that my observation is that there is some tendency among BYU fans to mythologize QBs of the past and when you actually go back and look at what they did, and compare it to what Hall did, I bet it reflects well on Hall.

He owns a lot of records and played a lot of games. It will be interesting to watch the next three years because if Wynn stays healthy he make take a run at some of those records.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

Tulsa and the bowl game last year at least.

Yes a Senior Beck was AWESOME against a much worse Arizona team. Beck and Hall are equals. Neither was great, neither was horrible, neither did anything special, neither crapped the bed against horrible teams, if you only count Beck's senior year which seems to be the measuring stick for his career.

[TripletDaddy]

Yes a Senior Beck was AWESOME against a much worse Arizona team. Beck and Hall are equals. Neither was great, neither was horrible, neither did anything special, neither crapped the bed against horrible teams, if you only count Beck's senior year which seems to be the measuring stick for his career.

This is what I don't get. Why all the Beck fanboy love? He was really good for most of his Senior year.

I think he gets a lot of credit from the younger set simply because his Senior year seemed to be the "return to glory" out of the darkness of the Crowton era.

[cougjunkie]

Max should go down in the top level of the BYU pantheon along with Detmer, Mcmahon, Young and Bosco.

I really believe this. He is the all-time winningest quarterback that alone is enough. But he is 2nd in passing yards, and tds. He went 2-1 against Utah and won a conference title. If that is not enough his comments after the game gave him the extra push needed.

[TripletDaddy]

Max should go down in the top level of the BYU pantheon along with Detmer, Mcmahon, Young and Bosco.

I really believe this. He is the all-time winningest quarterback that alone is enough. But he is 2nd in passing yards, and tds. He went 2-1 against Utah and won a conference title. If that is not enough his comments after the game gave him the extra push needed.

Also, has a chance to go 2-1 in bowl games.

Add to my confusion this incessant questioning of where Max Hall ranks amongst other BYU QBs that have fewer wins, fewer passing yards, and fewer TD passes. What else exactly does Max have to do to "rank" higher?

[cougjunkie]

Also, has a chance to go 2-1 in bowl games.

Add to my confusion this incessant questioning of where Max Hall ranks amongst other BYU QBs that have fewer wins, fewer passing yards, and fewer TD passes. What else exactly does Max have to do to "rank" higher?

Exactly we keep hearing the argument that he crapped the bed in big games but so did Detmer, Young and Mcmahon.

He also won some big games UCLA (twice), Oklahoma, Arizona, Utah (twice).

To add even more he lost 3 total conference games in 3 seasons. (TCU twice and Utah).

[ERCougar]

Maybe I am, but can't you see the humor in it even a little? I'm not upset at the guy, he said something emotional after a win. It isn't what you would have wanted him to say, but I don't feel any offense whatsoever about it. If it reflects on any one, and I'm not sure it does, it is him. And again, my reaction is bemusement. I mean, is anyone surprised that Ute fans are talking about it? Would you guys have said "ho hum" if one of our seniors said that and we had won? Of course not, we would all be talking about it. I imagine it might be a teeny tiny bit embarrassing to some, which is why they want to move on from it, I understand that. But emotional energy is going to go somewhere after a game for defeated fans, just as it did for 'ol Max.

I assume that second sentence isn't for me. But I will say that my observation is that there is some tendency among BYU fans to mythologize QBs of the past and when you actually go back and look at what they did, and compare it to what Hall did, I bet it reflects well on Hall.

He owns a lot of records and played a lot of games. It will be interesting to watch the next three years because if Wynn stays healthy he make take a run at some of those records.

OK...I'm more than sick of talking or hearing about this and I think we're both seeing it from our own lenses. Sort of like when JIC and I were watching the Unga fumble/non-fumble, we were both seeing what we wanted to see. I do think you kind of want to fit Hall into your stereotype of the self-righteous BYU player, while I want to see a kid that's defending his wife and mom. The truth is somewhere in between.

I think you're right about the mythologizing of past BYU greats. Even Detmer, who is arguably our best college QB ever, stunk it up at times. I think we BYU fans just all like to remember the Miami game.

EDIT: And yeah, it will be interesting to see what Wynn does. Utah seems to have quite a WR pipeline and if he fixes his deep ball (and that's a big if...I'm not sure Beck really ever got this down), he'll be really dangerous. I think he could have had a field day with the short passing game last night, a la BJ last year.