My instincts tell me

[UtahDan]

I agree you have less on the line. What you have on the line is an opponent wobbling and an opponent wobbling presents a great opportunity to really do some damage.

If you win this year, the fine BYU fans who scream I would rather lose with integrity than win without it will either get drown out or get you sing their song to a crowd.

Integrity, attendance, tradition, recruiting, smack will even become more meaningless.

While not a must win for the Utes, it certainly is a great opportunity to inflict some heavy program damage.

I think so too. I think our program overall has had better "momentum" lately than has BYU and a win at the end of this year, which will mean a higher ranking, in a year when less was expected of Utah and more of BYU will keep things headed in that direction.

Come to think of it, this game may actually represent the best opportunity either team has to win a game that matters this year. Seriously.

[byu71]

I think so too. I think our program overall has had better "momentum" lately than has BYU and a win at the end of this year, which will mean a higher ranking, in a year when less was expected of Utah and more of BYU will keep things headed in that direction.

Come to think of it, this game may actually represent the best opportunity either team has to win a game that matters this year. Seriously.

Agreed, although it is for second place, I think the game has some real significance.

If the Utes win, I think BYU fans have to hope Kyle goes to another program.

[UtahDan]

Agreed, although it is for second place, I think the game has some real significance.

If the Utes win, I think BYU fans have to hope Kyle goes to another program.

I think we should all hope Gary Patterson goes to another program.

[Fiyero]

I think we should all hope Gary Patterson goes to another program.

I hope GP stays and it forces everyone to raise their game to the next level.

[byu71]

I hope GP stays and it forces everyone to raise their game to the next level.

That is a good thought. For me the best thing that is happening for BYU football is what Utah and TCU are doing. It forces BYU to crap or get off the pot.

[Fiyero]

That is a good thought. For me the best thing that is happening for BYU football is what Utah and TCU are doing. It forces BYU to crap or get off the pot.

Sometimes teams need a wake-up call. Compare last year's Florida team after the loss to Ole Miss (how well they played, I mean) to this year's team that was handed a #1 ranking and a schedule of 12 powder puff junior high teams, with the exception of LSU after a bye week.

[UtahDan]

That is a good thought. For me the best thing that is happening for BYU football is what Utah and TCU are doing. It forces BYU to crap or get off the pot.

My sincere question is what can BYU do to elevate its level? My perception is that BYU has a fantastic recruiting pipeline that is built in and will always have it. This translates into a pretty consistent level of success that, at least since the NC (arguably) which was a pretty long time ago, never produces an exceptional team but rarely fails to produce a very good team. The built in advantage is also the built in limitation.

Utah's and TCU's have much less guarantee of success long term, but they also have the ability to recruit speed that BYU just hasn't ever had and from time to time translate that into a truly great team. My perception is that Utah and TCU have come up to where BYU has been for a long time and, at least in the very recent past, have accomplished more (assuming TCU goes BCS which it should). I think that BYU is a a high level and will maintain it as long as no Crowton comes along to screw it up. Whether that ever translates into what Utah has done twice or TCU will do this year remains to be seen. I guess my point is that I don't really think that BYU has much, if any, room to move up, but that it is a pretty darn good place even if it can't.

[byu71]

My sincere question is what can BYU do to elevate its level? My perception is that BYU has a fantastic recruiting pipeline that is built in and will always have it. This translates into a pretty consistent level of success that, at least since the NC (arguably) which was a pretty long time ago, never produces an exceptional team but rarely fails to produce a very good team. The built in advantage is also the built in limitation.

Utah's and TCU's have much less guarantee of success long term, but they also have the ability to recruit speed that BYU just hasn't ever had and from time to time translate that into a truly great team. My perception is that Utah and TCU have come up to where BYU has been for a long time and, at least in the very recent past, have accomplished more (assuming TCU goes BCS which it should). I think that BYU is a a high level and will maintain it as long as no Crowton comes along to screw it up. Whether that ever translates into what Utah has done twice or TCU will do this year remains to be seen. I guess my point is that I don't really think that BYU has much, if any, room to move up, but that it is a pretty darn good place even if it can't.

I may be totally naive and in denial. I think it is becoming painfully aware they can not keep ahead of Utah and TCU let alone even with them with the "good people recruit us" and "football is number 5 priority" mantre. They will sing it, but I will bet there is talk right now about not being so worried about recruiting a "wrong" kid. I would bet their is some internal thinking going on.

I don't care who you are. When you think you are top gun, you have a tendency to not recognize others who are getting better and about to pass you up. If BYU never got to a BCS game and Utah and TCU didn't either, BYU fans would be just fine. They would whine about respect, but they would blame the BCS and other things for their plight and be quite content dominating the conference. The sting is TCU and Utah, not our not making the BCS . When TCU and Utah make it, we have no one left to blame for slighting us.

[Blueintheface]

I'm still trying to figure out exactly where all of this BYU confidence is coming from, really. What makes you think that this even has the slight possibility of being a blowout? What facts do you have to support this claim? BYU's secondary too quick for the likes of David Reed and Jereme Brooks?

CU, I think it stems from the 6 total quarters all year that Utah has played of good football. The double nickel and 10 yards on 1st down running plays against TCU might also have something to do with it. Also, the players seemed to have finally ignored Bronco's advice of success-through-spirituality and instead are just going out and kicking some ass. This will carryover this week with or without magic.

[YOhio]

I'm not the only one who has a good feeling about this game. Though I'm not familiar with his work, Buton777 from Cougarboard has had similar impressions.

[Fiyero]

CU, I think it stems from the 6 total quarters all year that Utah has played of good football. The double nickel and 10 yards on 1st down running plays against TCU might also have something to do with it. Also, the players seemed to have finally ignored Bronco's advice of success-through-spirituality and instead are just going out and kicking some ass. This will carryover this week with or without magic.

Did you really just compare BYU to TCU?

That was quite the fight that Max and Co. put on in front of their home crowd. After falling behind, way to roll over and die. Take off their pants, bend over and just quit.

[Goatnapper'96]

I may be totally naive and in denial. I think it is becoming painfully aware they can not keep ahead of Utah and TCU let alone even with them with the "good people recruit us" and "football is number 5 priority" mantre. They will sing it, but I will bet there is talk right now about not being so worried about recruiting a "wrong" kid. I would bet their is some internal thinking going on.

I don't care who you are. When you think you are top gun, you have a tendency to not recognize others who are getting better and about to pass you up. If BYU never got to a BCS game and Utah and TCU didn't either, BYU fans would be just fine. They would whine about respect, but they would blame the BCS and other things for their plight and be quite content dominating the conference. The sting is TCU and Utah, not our not making the BCS . When TCU and Utah make it, we have no one left to blame for slighting us.

So to clarify you believe that if Bronco no longer claims football to be a 5th priority or that players have to recruit him suddenly BYU could compete with TCU and Utah each and every year?

I got to be honest with you. As this season is closing I have a few thoughts:

1.) TCU is damn good this year. Good enough that I don't think BYU will compete with them if they maintain this level of performance. Period. Now, my recommendation to deal with this is to wait and bare and grunt it because I don't think TCU will stay this good forever.

2.) I think some of the seeds of discontent for this year and last were sown with some shoddy recruiting at LB back in the middle part of this decade. I think the recruiting is more balanced but time will tell.

3.) Bronco has made some boneheaded errors with respect to PR. The priority issue and the recruiting issue are dumb points and it would be smart to not be that way. Saying that I only think it is an issue when other teams are better in the conference because it provides ammo for folks to pile on. In other words even if he said I will give a recruit who is good enough my daughter in marriage if he were to pick BYU and football is our life here - I don't believe there would be an appreciable difference in performance. I think it is coachspeak, but it is dumb coachspeak.

4.) I think the playcalling and gameplanning could improve to some extent. But I happen to agree with the overall mentality of consistency and execution. However, allowing emotion to take control of you and not kicking a field goal against AF is an example where I think the staff still needs to grow up.

I think things are pointed in as good a direction as BYU can have it, but I honestly think I see more limitations on BYU than you do. As I watched Arizona and Oregon it was reinforced to me that BYU is just at a disparite enough athletic disadvantage that I think BYU does about as well as it can. Blueintheface and you and Lingo and me and Non-Sequitar and wish and hope and dream for that type of speed and genuinely think that if Bronco did not expect guys to recruit him and that if he lived and died football they would magically appear, but I think reality would be quite a bit different. Does that mean that BYU can never ever ever ever (bomb-bomb no erasie) reach a BCS bowl? Not in my opinion, but it is going to take some luck. Luck in injury department and luck in scheduling. But there is no way that BYU can consistently, or should be expected to really ever, compete the way TCU has this year. I could see BYU teams as good as last year's Ute squad, so I think it can be done I just don't understand the angst that it creates for some who really seem to expect it. At least that is how I genuinely read the landscape of BYU and its place in college football.

[Goatnapper'96]

Did you really just compare BYU to TCU?

That was quite the fight that Max and Co. put on in front of their home crowd. After falling behind, way to roll over and die. Take off their pants, bend over and just quit.

Methinks the whole state of Utah become disciples of the great Robert Knight when the huns from Fort Worth entered any battlefield anywhere.

The fact of the matter, IMO, is that they are just that much better and that both teams were trying the very damndest but sometimes the foe is just better than you.

[byu71]

So to clarify you believe that if Bronco no longer claims football to be a 5th priority or that players have to recruit him suddenly BYU could compete with TCU and Utah each and every year?

That is not my claim. I think BYU competes with Utah and TCU year in and year out because I don't think either of them can maintain the level they were at the last two years.

However, without an attitude change at BYU, which I believe has been occuring, it is my belief we would fall into a zone somewhere between AFA and Utah and TCU. So my belief that there is an ongoing attitude change is one in which I believe will allow us to keep up, not dominate.

I think that change has us in a BCS game sometime in the next 5 years. My guess is that when we do win that BCS game, 25-30% of the starters will be non RM's and "active LDS Ute fans" will have at some point bitched about some kid at the Y and how he embarassed the school.

[Goatnapper'96]

That is not my claim. I think BYU competes with Utah and TCU year in and year out because I don't think either of them can maintain the level they were at the last two years.

However, without an attitude change at BYU, which I believe has been occuring, it is my belief we would fall into a zone somewhere between AFA and Utah and TCU. So my belief that there is an ongoing attitude change is one in which I believe will allow us to keep up, not dominate.

I think that change has us in a BCS game sometime in the next 5 years. My guess is that when we do win that BCS game, 25-30% of the starters will be non RM's and "active LDS Ute fans" will have at some point bitched about some kid at the Y and how he embarassed the school.

How many starters are not RMs this year?

Defense:
DL: Jorgenson - RM, Tialeeva - NRM, Dennery- RM
LB: Pendleton - NRM, Clawson - RM, Hooks - NRM, Baumen - RM
DB: Bradley - RM, Johnson - RM, Rich - RM, Logan - NRM

Total on defense of 4. That = 36%.

Offense:
QB - Hall NRM
RB - Unga - NRM, Tonga - RM
TE - Pitta - RM
WR - Chambers - NRM, Jacobsen - RM
OL - Aletto - RM, Reynolds - RM, Hansen - RM, Willing - RM, Brown - RM

That is 3 out of 11. That = 27%. Together it is 7 out of 22 for a total of 32%. That indicates that BYU is already there. I think that recruiting this year shows the change you indicate moreso. 6 of its 25 committs are not LDS with at least 3 of the LDS kids not planning on missions. Throw in another kid or two choosing not to go and this class could get in the vicinity of only 50-60% not serving missions. It could get interesting if BYU gets as high as 40% starters not RMs. We shall see, but I want more than one year to come to any conclusions about shifts in strategy. The class signed in 2007 had a bunch of non-LDS kids, and many of us were most excited about those non-LDS kids. Attrition killed that group of non-LDS kids with only JJ Diluigi as the remaining holdover and he doesn't strike me as a starter.