NBA 2012-2013

[MarkGrace]

I've always just thought of him as a great player when healthy, but injuries have limited him somewhat and that's kept him from always being in the starting lineup and leading him to assuming the sixth man role.

I never viewed his 6th man role as being related to his injuries, but I could be wrong. To me it was always about maximizing his ability since at his best he was a brilliant handler/creator, and they already had one of those in the starting lineup.

I'm well aware of how good he's been when he played, but it just seems like Ray Allen had a longer time of being an elite player despite not being on great teams all the time.

I suppose there are a lot of ways to look at it. As I said before, measured on advanced stats and efficiency, Ginobili was really, really good. Judging by PER, Allen's best season was 22.28. Ginobili bested that seven times, including hitting truly elite numbers in the 24 range (three times). Ray's wins shares PER 48 peak was .211; Manu bested that mark six times and currently carries an average matching Ray's highest year.

Should Manu get more credit because his mpg has been lower or get dinged for that? I wonder how some other players' efficiency could improve if they were asked to play 7-8 fewer mpg for an entire career.

I guess that's a fair question. Hollinger has always maintained that per minute efficiency tends to increase, not decrease, the more minutes a player gets, but I'm sure that's not a given and obviously I have no answer for this question. But if Pops squeezes another championship out of this group because he's kept their minutes lower would it have been worth it?

Manu is underrated both because he plays on the Spurs and because people still love counted stats. But his individual play has been brilliant, and at his height he was as productive as any SG in the league. Plus, as SMR said, he might be putting on his 4th ring this year. Dude's an easy in for me.

[The_Douger]

I never viewed his 6th man role as being related to his injuries, but I could be wrong. To me it was always about maximizing his ability since at his best he was a brilliant handler/creator, and they already had one of those in the starting lineup.



I suppose there are a lot of ways to look at it. As I said before, measured on advanced stats and efficiency, Ginobili was really, really good. Judging by PER, Allen's best season was 22.28. Ginobili bested that seven times, including hitting truly elite numbers in the 24 range (three times). Ray's wins shares PER 48 peak was .211; Manu bested that mark six times and currently carries an average matching Ray's highest year.



I guess that's a fair question. Hollinger has always maintained that per minute efficiency tends to increase, not decrease, the more minutes a player gets, but I'm sure that's not a given and obviously I have no answer for this question. But if Pops squeezes another championship out of this group because he's kept their minutes lower would it have been worth it?

Manu is underrated both because he plays on the Spurs and because people still love counted stats. But his individual play has been brilliant, and at his height he was as productive as any SG in the league. Plus, as SMR said, he might be putting on his 4th ring this year. Dude's an easy in for me.

Excuse my ignorance, but what is win shares? I haven't ever heard of that before.

I'd be interested to see if they switched teams. If Manu was the best guy on some of those Milwaukee or Seattle teams, I wonder if his efficiency would have gone down. It's well documented how well he meshes with what the Spurs are doing. I don't make these comments as trying to discredit anyone, more as just musing about how careers might have turned out different.

And yes, I think it's well worth it if Pop squeezes a title out of this group. Pop is the best coach by far at limiting minutes to get the most out of his guys when the games really matter. It also carves out nice roles for guys who are bench players because there's nights when they have to be relied upon. Then when all the cards are on the table, those guys have the confidence to perform in big moments like we saw 2 nights ago with Neal. Ty Corbin should be taking notes about how to define roles on a basketball team.

[Indy Coug]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is win shares? I haven't ever heard of that before.

The NBA's plagiarism of Bill James.

[MarkGrace]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is win shares? I haven't ever heard of that before.

Stat created for baseball that was then adapted to basketball. Basically looks at the number of games a team wins in a year, and then assigns a value to each player for their contribution in those wins.

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

Mike Miller reportedly into the starting lineup in place of Haslem. Makes sense if Miller's body can hold up.

I remember when the Big 3 came together in Miami and then they spent a lot of money on a 5 year deal for Miller. They had to be careful about filling out that roster because they didn't have much money to spend, but they gave a lot to Miller and then way overspent (relatively speaking) on Joel Anthony. But Miller looked to be a perfect fit. He was a bigger perimeter guy, rebounded well, was a great shooter, but could also play a very versatile offensive game. He'd even played some PG in spurts during his career. But it just never worked out. His body broke down too much and too quickly. It's crazy to hear Spoelstra talk now about how they were literally saving him during the season for this time, knowing his body couldn't hold up to minutes all season long. He almost played him against Chicago, but knew they could get past them w/o him, so he didn't. Limited sample stats say this is the right move...well, playing Miller more is the right move, but it might actually be better to replace Wade and not Haslem.

@CoupNBA 3m
As far as two-man lineups go, LeBron's best partner in the playoffs has been Mike Miller -- Net of +18.9 per 100 possessions in 112 minutes.

@CoupNBA 3m
And the Heat's best two-man grouping with over 50 minutes played in the playoffs is Chalmers-Miller at +31.9/100 possessions in 61 minutes.

[MarkGrace]

Miller's been shooting the ball great, but someone had a thing the other day about how much he's potentially cost them in defense vs. Battier.

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

Miller's been shooting the ball great, but someone had a thing the other day about how much he's potentially cost them in defense vs. Battier.

Wouldn't be surprised. The guy simply can't move. Haberstroh said we might see more Battier tonight as the Heat try to get more shooters out there. Battier has had some rest now, so I wonder if his legs have recovered some and his shot can get better. I wonder if the Miller defensive comparison was being made to Battier during the regular season or in the playoffs. Because there have been stretches where Battier has looked like a big liability on defense. Granted, that is with him being completely outmatched going up against someone like David West.

[Indy Coug]

[Art Vandelay]

Other than the two states with much larger populations, WA with the most picks in the western half the country. Washingtonians be balling'

[MarkGrace]

Abbott: The no-brainer pick is the Heat, and it makes sense. When they play ferociously, they are undefeated and they tend to get ferocious after losses. In the playoffs they have won big. But just for fun, I'll say the Spurs will win, which is really just an expression of belief in Gregg Popovich, home-court advantage, and shooting ability.

Adande: Heat. We've come to another crossroads of LeBron's career. It's hard to believe he'd go out quietly right now in the prime of his career and at the peak of his powers. On the one hand, we keep having these make-or-break moments for LeBron. On the other hand, he must be doing something right if we keep having this discussion in June, if you know what I mean.

Arnovitz: Heat. Throughout the playoffs, the recent past for Miami has told us nothing about the immediate future. The Heat haven't lost consecutive games since the Ford Administration. With that and Parker's injury in mind, Miami seems poised to bounce back.

Christensen: Heat. LeBron has said he will do whatever it takes to get it going, and although I highly respect Greg Popovich, I wouldn't bet against the best player in the world. Miami knows this is practically a do-or-die game for them. They haven't lost consecutive games since Jan. 10, and they have shown the ability to bounce back from losses all season.

Pelton: Heat. Until proven otherwise, I'm going with the playoff-long trend that the Heat save their best basketball for the game after a loss. I think they win and turn the narrative of this series 180 degrees yet again.

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2013...game-4-preview

They all pick the Heat? I don't knoow, that whitewashing last game left me with a lot of doubt about the Heat tonight. I woke up this morning with the strong feeling of a SA victory!

[SandYFan]

Utah has got to have the lowest number of draft picks when compared to basketball hoops/capita in in the nation. Every church has one, and so many driveways have a hoop. To put out two draft picks in 15 years is astounding.

[Donuthole]

Name the two picks. No cheating.

Spoiler for Represent!:

TH
JV

[MarkGrace]

Well this was being discussed on CB but they had Travis Hansen and Justin Hamilton. But Jackson Vroman has to be in there as well -- he played at Viewmont.

[Donuthole]

Well this was being discussed on CB but they had Travis Hansen and Justin Hamilton. But Jackson Vroman has to be in there as well -- he played at Viewmont.

Those are the two I had.

[MarkGrace]

Those are the two I had.

I wonder which ones the graph was counting? All three were definitely drafted and played HS ball in Utah. btw, I was reading Vroman's wiki page to see what he was up to these days, and apparently he's a naturalized citizen of Lebanon so he can play in their league. Crazy.